From an anti-Catholic website


#1

After viewing another thread on this forum, I ended up at this page:

Hard Questions to Ask Good Catholics

Why aren’t these Catholic traditions found in the 1st century Church?

* Priests offering sacrifices for sins
* Indulgences remitting sin's punishment
* Church leaders forbidden to marry

** * Infallible men**

Ha! If there wern’t infallible men in the first century church, so long New Testament! :wave:


#2

That’s a very good point. If you can believe in the infallibility of St Paul you can believe in the infallibility of St Peter.


#3

That Pro-Gospel web-site is ran by Mike Gendron who just recently had a debate with Tim Staples. Here is the thread on it:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=161375

God bless


#4

Mike Gendron…:stuck_out_tongue:
That particular article is precisely why we get so many n-Cs/a-cs in here that use that scattergun type of rhetorical attack. Look at the list of stuff he comes off with.
**
Where do you go to find the truth about life’s most critical issues?**

Answer: In the pillar and ground of the according to the New Testament. The Catholic Church.

1st Timothy 3:15: if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

** Did you know there is only one way to be saved?** Of course!

Acts 2 37: Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
38: And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39: For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him." and Acts 22:16: And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

Did you know those who distort the Gospel are condemned?
Certainly! But in “carefully studying to show ourselves approved unto God”, we do not find the modern post reformation churches preaching the same gospel as the New Testament.

Galatians 1:6: I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel –
7: not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8: But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.
9: As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.

Did you know that Jesus put an end to the ordained priesthood?
Really? Then why does St. Paul make statements like, “24: Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,” (Colossians 1) and why then does the disciple of St. John, Ignatius of Antioch write the following?

[size=]CHAP. VIII.–LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP. (LINK)

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution(17) of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper(18) Eucharist, which is[administered] either

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out[through their office] the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper(18) Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.(2) even as where Christ is, there does all the heavenly host stand by, waiting upon Him as the Chief Captain of the Lord’s might, and the Governor of every intelligent nature. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize, or to offer, or to present sacrifice, or to celebrate a love-feast.(1) But that which seems good to him, is also well-pleasing to God, that everything ye do may be secure and valid. (Cont’d)[/size]


#5

**Do you really believe Catholic priests have the power to call the Lord Jesus down from heaven every day? **

Yes indeed. By the authority and command of Our Lord Jesus Christ both at the last supper and in John 6 the Real Presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ is made present.

In fact, St. Paul speaks of his own teaching concerning this is 1st Corinthians 10 & 11.

1st Corinthians 10:15: I speak as to sensible men; judge for yourselves what I say.
16: The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?
17: Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread. and 11:23: For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
24: and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25: In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
26: For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
27: Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
28: Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29: For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
30: That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.

**Why do Catholic priests continue to offer Jesus as a sacrificial victim when He said “It is finished” (John 19:30)? **

By the very command of Christ Himself. See the passages on the Eucharist above. Does not the sacrifice of Christ transcend time and space in all directions in order to apply to those all the way back to creation and forward until the end of time?

What better way to confront a sinful world with the sacrifice of Christ. The Eucharist is not only scripturally sound, but more so than “altar calls” and “a sinner’s prayer”, or “accepting Christ as your personal Lord and savior”, none of which are in the Word of God.

Did you know Jesus has already obtained redemption for believers?

Of course! Here you misrepresent Catholic belief and show that you either [LIST=1]
*]Don’t understand Catholic teaching.
*]or, deliberately intend to indict Catholic belief by misrepresentation.[/LIST]

It’s impossible to tell which. The fact is that his quotes are out of context and that any honest person who took the time to read all the Catechism has to say on this would see the inaccuracy of his remarks. (Also at this point, an honest person, might very well begin to question Gendron as a good source.)
(Cont’d)


#6

Why do you call Jesus the Savior when you have to save yourself?

Produce an authentic Catholic teaching to this effect. You can’t…because there is no such thing.

There are, however, passages like Matthew 25:31-46, which teach the critical importance of a believer’s good works at his judgment.

31: “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
32: Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
33: and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.
34: Then the King will say to those at his right hand, Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; **35: for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36: I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37: Then the righteous will answer him,Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
38: And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
39: And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?'
40: And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'** 41: Then he will say to those at his left hand,Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
42: for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43: I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'
44: Then they also will answer, Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' **45: Then he will answer them,Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.'
46: And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”**

Why do you believe a place caller Purgatory can purify your sins?

Because its in the Word of God. Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory

Why do you pray to Mary?

Because she is the first believer and demonstrated a ministry of intercession with her Son even from the very beginning of His public ministry in John 2. Because we believe in the Communion of Saints, a scriptural teaching in the New Testament. %between% and MP3 Bible study.
**
Why aren’t these Catholic traditions found in the 1st century Church?**
* Priests offering sacrifices for sins
See Ignatius of Antioch’s letter quoted above.
* Indulgences remitting sin’s punishment
John 20:21-23, and Matthew 16:18 and 18:18
* Church leaders forbidden to marry :eek:
Well, gee. What did the Lord Himself say? Answering this allegation.
* Infallible men
Matthew 16:18 and 28:19-20. 1st Timothy 3:15
(Con’t)


#7

Did you Know that whenever you believe a doctrine, you must also for sake that which opposes it?

Indeed! And I’m quite alright with that. :slight_smile:

Which Jesus will you trust?

The real one. The one who founded a church to carry on His mission and ministry on Earth, but nowhere commissioned any writings to replace the sole authority that He Himself exercises through His Church by the ministry of the Holy Spirit.

From the very moment that you embrace the belief that the Bible is the sole authority for all Christian belief and practice you have already erred into “another gospel”, and all further teachings based upon that fundamental error are then subject to error because of that basis. This Sola Scriptura is not a Biblical doctrine at all so then the question turns back on it’s author.

"Which Jesus will you trust?"


#8

But does belief in the infallibility of either, require BITI of the other :slight_smile: ?

I don’t think so - &, I think infallibility is the wrong category to apply. STM it would be better to emphasise the work of the Holy Spirit in the men, than the men themselves.

Maybe infallibility, as a topic in theology, has a claim to come under considerations of the work of the Holy Spirit. Just thinking aloud.


#9

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