I can’t think of anything less genuinely masculine. The cast of Ru Paul’s Drag Race look like Lee Marvin in comparison.
Don’t worry about how you come across. That may be your problem. Be yourself. Plan a date to have fun. Keep the conversation light hearted. Just have fun and be yourself. Trying to show how strong your faith is they will learn over time. They want to know how you are as a man to be with. They want to see you as a fun guy, who is responsible but not looking to live in a monastery.
It is one of the strangest things that when a man really likes a girl his self-confidence evaporates and he becomes tongue tied! He can say the stupidest things which he never would otherwise. When you see it in movies it’s quite real!
Of course, if he has a genuine stutter anyway then it becomes impossible.
About a month ago, there was this girl I saw at daily mass nearly everyday at my college I was interested in and I would talk with her briefly before mass most days. I missed daily mass because I had class but I booked it to the chapel to get to the chapel right after daily mass ended so I could accidently just so happen to bump into her (lol).
So I got there and stood around for a minute pretending I was reading a bulletin board, and then the chapel doors opened and the Priest came out and then she came out and said to the Priest ”Thanks Fr. Sean for saying mass!”. I was on the other side of the room and she saw me and smiled and said hey. So I said while stuttering a bit (because I didn’t plan what to say to her despite planning on being there to talk to her so it kind of just came out) ”hey, I had class so I missed mass, who said mass?” I’m in the same room as the priest who said mass and clearly heard her say thanks to him so she knew I knew it was Fr. Sean… so she was like “uhh… Fr. Sean. Well, see ya later!” That was awkward…
I don’t stutter normally and I have zero problems public speaking in front of crowds of 40+, I actually enjoy it. I’ve also always been a class clown and have no problem making a fool of myself for the laughs. But talking 1-1 with a girl I’m interested in or in a group where she is part of, it’s like I can’t stop shaking (I’m sure they notice, I feel like I’m shaking out my skin) and I start to stutter
That’s great that you have confidence in these other situations!
If the girls you like happen to be in these audiences then they will realise that your nervousness with them is not the whole picture and will probably make allowance for it. As others have said, they may find it “cute”.
If the girls wouldn’t normally see you in public then perhaps you could deliberately (but not too directly) mention it, as otherwise they would have no idea that you can handle this.
One of things shy people need to learn is how to “advertise” themselves.
Our Catholic faith about “humility” and “quietness” can get in the way here, and to be honest I’m not sure how it all fits together. However a woman looking for a husband will still try to appear attractive while being “humble”, and somehow a man has to also advertise himself.
We are averse to it, but you can be sure that most people will never know of our strengths and accomplishments unless we somehow tell them. It’s almost better to be a “jerk” telling people how good you are than to undersell yourself.
I thought about it but I don’t think I’d actually go. I guess I don’t think I need help that bad but maybe I do
Seems like for some people this all comes very natural, makes me think I somehow missed out on a “how to date and talk to women” class back in elementary school lol
Well done asking the questions and listening to what others are saying! You’ll do well.
The turning points and lessons I’ve mentioned in my own story came much later in life.
I was still hopeless with women when I married at 25. My wife actually pursued me and put up with my hopelessness, because it suited her - AT THE TIME! I’ve seen this happen to other fellers who have good job prospects or other desirable assets - and, like me, they’ve paid for it down the line.
That works, too, although “water activities” sounds like code for “I’d like to see you in a bathing suit.”
Actually, I’d run any ideas like this in front of some actual women who’d have a feel for how the locals would take this.
Again: if you have a reputation as a “great guy,” you can do worse than having girls who turned you down try to set you up with somebody. They do want to see those “great guys” with somebody!
Lol. That’s what I was thinking… Talk about making the other person nervous at least!
@GospelOfMatthew , I’d say “be yourself”, but you’ve been doing that and it doesn’t seem to have worked. Of course, by no means am I saying “Don’t be yourself!” That would be disingenuous in ways. There’s a lot of good advice on this thread.
Stop talking so much about religion. You know they’re religious. They know they’re religious. You know you’re religious. So, it seems that’s a moot point for now. That’s something you discuss when thing get more serious, and I’m talking “probing your actual future wife” serious, not “just dating” serious. That’s a recurrent theme throughout this thread.
You indicated your professors all think you dress nicely. That’s nice. But, have you ever thought that jeans and a t-shirt sometimes send off a better “Hey, I’m human!” vibe. Not to say dressing nicely is inhuman, but it is a way of presenting yourself, and your presentation might translate into “stuffy”.
Relax. As some have said, being nervous can be cute. Don’t let that interfere with things. It will pass.
Instead of asking a girl out on a “date”, why not see what they’re doing right then? If they’re not doing anything, ask them if they’d like to grab a cup of coffee. Immediate is sometimes good. Have a conversation (not religious). Be the funny self you say you are. If things seem to be going well, ask if you can call them sometime and then get their number. Try a few phone calls first. (Sorry, I can’t help with how long you wait to call them. That’s always been an mystery to me!)
Start like that. Then, have more coffee or take them to a sit-down pastry shop for coffee and pastries. (After you establish if they like them, of course.) IF that and the phone calls go well, ask them to dinner. Nothing too fancy. You should have probed to see what they like to eat - try to take them to a place they like, especially if it’s ethnic food. If you’ve never eaten it before, that might be even better. You can get their assistance in what might be good.
Progress from there. Avoid movies as a first date. You DO want to talk to her, after all. That’s the point of going out with someone, isn’t it? Avoid food. There’s nothing like having your date worry there’s something in her teeth. Plus, you cannot really talk while eating. Personally, I wouldn’t want MY food to get cold .
When I first started following your thread from the beginning, I lamented thinking you’d been rejected by some outrageous number of girls. Then, I read you were talking about four. FOUR. That’s not many, and you’ve been approaching them all the same way.
Change your style (in many ways), and have more patience. If you click with a girl, great! If not, so be it. It’s not the end of the world.
That’s about all I can think of at this moment. Good luck!
Edit: Stupid grammar.
Hi, Dragon. My opinion is that you are going about this backward. You know women, right? In your church groups, in other areas. The problem isn’t that there is a general shortage of women, I take it. So try this instead: Don’t ask anybody out.
Engage women in conversation whenever the opportunity comes around. Talk to your acquaintances, talk to their friend, cousin, or whoever they drag along to the bowling alley. Expose yourself to and talk with a lot of women. Wait.
At some point, you will notice your conversation partner gazing at you deeply for long periods. It may become obvious that she is trying to sound intelligent or witty or warm, or whatever she thinks you might like. She will laugh at your jokes. She will groom herself–patting the hair, rearranging the hair behind the ear, playing with jewelry or sleeves. She will probably even stroke herself–arms, neck, etc. She will smile to excess. And while talking with you, she will probably reach over and touch you on the arm. If you are standing up while talking, she will be practically dancing before you. And all the while, you are getting this fantastic eye contact! These are all signs! There are more, like crossing the far leg over toward you, so as to effectively swivel in her seat toward you. She may offer a sip of her drink.
Wait for all of these signs before you ask somebody out. The woman is telling you she is ready to be asked. When she tells you, then you ask.
This thread certainly has taken an ugly turn!
As you are asking out women from your religious group, and self admittedly all you talk about is religion, I am guessing this is your date killer. Christ himself, while on this earth, went to festivities and dinners so much so that he was accused about it (he eats and drinks with prostitutes and tax collectors!). I’m going to go out on a limb and say it is going to be okay with Christ if you take a lady to see Aquaman and then pizza or if you buy two tickets to Hamilton then go for tacos.
In fact, I would leave “going to Mass or a rosary” together until you have been seeing each other and it is simply the natural thing to do. This way, speaking as a lady, if I go to Mass with you AS the first date and the first date goes way weird, I don’t have to tie that even to Mass in my mind. Better tie it to that Ansel Adams exhibit that we went to one time. Does that make ANY sense?
It comes naturally for the guys whom women seek out. For most of us, who have to seek women out, it doesn’t come naturally at all. Most women get that you’re nervous when you first start talking to them. You just have to barrel through it.
Going to guess you show up on this first date with your own bowling shoes and a custom ball, right?
I say this with the caring of your favorite Aunt, please say you don’t talk about what an excellent bowler you are WHILE you are beating her at bowling? Men who brag are the biggest turn off in the world. (There is an ocean of difference between confidence and bragging).
It is okay to let someone else win, to go easy on them, simply to make the game more fun. I have a freakishly strange mind, board games that deal with skill especially those that are word games or puzzle games, I can win every time against anyone in my husband’s family. Any of them, all of them, does not matter, I win. Heck, I can always beat his family members at dominoes and I only play when I see them. Guess what, that schick got old real quick. Now, I hold back, the games are not about winning or losing, they are about camaraderie and bonding and laughter (unless his cousin is playing and I cannot let that guy win because he is smug).
Honestly, I’d say that unless you can take someone bowling and make it fun, you should never go bowling with a lady until you are 10 dates into a relationship OR start a Newman Club bowling league, you might meet a lady there who will knock you over
Indeed. Praying together can be a rather intimate thing. I would not recommend it on the first date. I mean, sure you can say grace before eating. But a one-on-one rosary? That would be a little too much for a first date.
I have to do this with my wife and Mario Kart. It’s better for all. She can definitely beat me in bowling, though.
Maybe avoid that for a date, for the same reason that I would never challenge a woman to a powerlifting exhibition for a first date.
I’m gonna win. She’s gonna resent being dragged into a game she had no chance at winning.
You once mentioned that when you do your public talks, your friends say your voice changes.
As someone who has coached public speaking, and who knows quite a few “famous” people, that is interesting.
Have you ever met Dr Scott Hahn or Matthew Kelly or Teresa Tomeo or Fr Andrew Apostoli or any of the well-known Catholic speakers? Thing is, Dr Hahn’s speaking voice is the same when he is presenting to a crowd of thousands and when he is eating lunch across a pic nic table. Teresa Tomeo is the same on air as she is when she is talking cookie recipes over a glass of wine.
The speakers you often post about, Matt Fradd for example, speaks in a natural voice.
That guy who does all of the movie trailers? His voice sounds like that in an interview or when he orders pizza.
Public speaking voice should only be a change in formality of terms, “projection” and volume if you do not have a good sound system. I have taught stage presentation, the very first thing I have to teach people is to speak in your natural voice. We tend to raise our voices to a much higher range or a much lower range when those nerves kick in. It is not unusual for a person who has had a struggle with confidence to be so used to speaking in this “nervous” range that it has become a habit.
Begin to catch yourself when you hear that “changed voice” kicking in and reel it back to normal GoM. In social situations, there is no need to over project, a softer volume will cause people to listen more attentively (just don’t slip into inaudible mumbling).