Fulgens Corona


#1

Catholics say they WORSHIP MARY

Look at this:

FULGENS CORONA

  1. It is therefore, a pleasure for us, a full century having passed since the Pontiff of immortal memory, Pius IX, solemnly proclaimed this singular privilege of the Virgin Mother of God, to summarize the whole doctrinal position and conclude in these words of the same Pontiff, asserting that this doctrine “vouched for in Sacred Scripture according to the interpretation of the Fathers, is handed down by them in so many of their important writings, is expressed and celebrated in so many illustrious monuments of renowned antiquity, and proposed and confirmed by the greatest and highest decision of the Church” (Bull Ineffabilis Deus), **so that to pastors and faithful there is nothing "more sweet, nothing dearer than to worship, venerate, invoke and praise with ardent affection the Mother of God conceived without stain of original sin. (Ibidem.)
    **

#2

PROCLAIMING A MARIAN YEAR TO COMMEMORATE THE CENTENARY OF THE
DEFINITION OF THE DOGMA OF THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION

  1. For as Aquinas correctly states: “The Blessed Virgin, because she is the Mother of God, has a certain infinite dignity from the infinite good, which is God” (Cf. Summa Theologiae, I, Q, 25, Art 6 as 4um). And a distinguished writer develops and explains this in these words: “The Blessed Virgin . . . is the Mother of God: therefore, she is the purest and the most holy, so that under God a greater purity cannot be understood” (Cornelius a Lapide, In Matth. 1.16).

  2. And again, if we consider the matter with attention, and especially if we consider the burning and sweet love which Almighty God without doubt had, and has, for the mother of His only begotten Son, for what reason can we even think that she was, even for the briefest moment of time, subject to sin and destitute of divine grace. Almighty God could certainly, by virtue of the merits of the Redeemer, bestow on her this singular privilege; that therefore He did not do so, we cannot even suppose. It was fitting that Jesus Christ should have such a mother as would be worthy of Him as far as possible; and she would not have been worthy, if, contaminated by the hereditary stain even for the first moment only of her conception, she had been subject to the abominable power of Satan.

  3. Nor can it be asserted that the Redemption by Christ was on this account lessened, as if it did not extend to the whole race of Adam: and therefore something taken away from the office and dignity of the Divine Redeemer. For if we carefully and thoroughly consider the matter, we easily perceive that Christ the Lord in a certain most perfect manner really redeemed His mother, since it was by virtue of His merits that she was preserved by God immune from all stain of original sin. Wherefore, the infinite dignity of Jesus Christ and His office of universal redemption is not diminished nor lowered by this tenet of doctrine, rather it is greatly increased.

  4. Non-Catholics and reformers are therefore mistaken when because of this pretext they find fault with, or disapprove of, our devotion to the Virgin Mother of God, as if it took something from the worship due to God alone and to Jesus Christ. The contrary is true because any honor and veneration which we may give to our Heavenly Mother undoubtedly redounds to the glory of her Divine Son, not only because all graces and all gifts, even the highest, flow from Him as from their primary source, but also because “The glory of children are their fathers” (Book of Proverbs, XVII 6).

  5. Yet this centenary celebration should not only serve to revive Catholic Faith and earnest devotion to the Mother of God in the souls of all but Christians should also, in as far as possible, conform their lives to the image of the same Virgin. Just as all mothers are deeply affected when they perceive that the countenance of their children reflects a peculiar likeness to their own, so also our Most Sweet Mother wishes for nothing more, never rejoices more than when she sees those whom, under the cross of her Son, she has adopted as children in His stead, portray the lineaments and ornaments of her own soul in thought, word and deed.

  6. Without doubt, all these principles of Christianity, which the Virgin Mother of God incites us to follow with eagerness and with energy, can be entirely and lastingly productive only when actually put into practice. Taking this into consideration, We invite each and every one of you, Venerable Brethren, by reason of the office that you exercise, to exhort the clergy and people committed to you to celebrate the Marian Year which We proclaim to be held the whole world over from the month of December next until the same month of the coming year - just a century having elapsed since the Virgin Mother of God, amid the applause of the entire Christian people shone with a new gem, when, as We have said, Our predecessor of immortal memory, Pius IX, solemnly decreed and defined that she was absolutely free from all stain of original sin. And we confidently trust that this Marian celebration may bring forth those most desired and salutary fruits which all of us long for.

  7. And since in all cities, towns and villages, wherever the Christian religion thrives, there is a sanctuary, or at least an altar, in which the sacred image of the Blessed Virgin Mary is enshrined for the devotion of the Christian people, We desire, Venerable Brethren, that the faithful should throng thither in great numbers and should offer to our Most Sweet Mother not only private but also public supplications with one voice and with one mind.

  8. But where - as is the case in almost all dioceses, there exists a church in which the Virgin Mother of God is worshipped with more intense devotion, thither on stated days let pilgrims flock together in great numbers and publicly and in the open give glorious expression to their common Faith and their common love toward the Virgin Most Holy. We have no doubt that this will be done in an especial manner at the Grotto of Lourdes, where there is such ardent devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary conceived without stain of sin.

  9. But let this holy city of Rome be the first to give the example, this city which from the earliest Christian era worshipped the heavenly mother, its patroness, with a special devotion. As all know, there are many sacred edifices here, in which she is proposed for the devotion of the Roman people; but the greatest without doubt is the Liberian Basilica, in which the mosaics of Our predecessor of pious memory, Sixtus III, still glisten, an outstanding monument to the Divine maternity of the Virgin Mary, and in which the “salvation of the Roman people” (Salus Populi Romani) benignly smiles. Thither especially let the suppliant citizens flock, and before that most sacred image let all put forth pious prayers, imploring especially that Rome, which is the principal city of the Catholic world, may also give the lead in Faith, in piety and in sanctity. We address you, children of Rome, in the words of Our predecessor of saintly memory, Leo the Great, “For although the whole world, should flourish with all the virtues, you, however, above all other peoples, should especially excel in deeds of piety, you who are founded on the citadel of the Apostolic rock, you whom Our Lord, Jesus Christ redeemed with all and the Blessed Apostle Peter instructed above all.” (Sermon III , 14; Migne, PL, LIV, 147-148).

  10. There are many things, indeed, which all, in the present circumstances, should petition from the protection, patronage and intercessory power of the Blessed Virgin. In the first place, let them ask that, with the assistance of Divine grace, the way of life of each one may be daily made more conformable to the Christian Commandments, as We have already said, since Faith without works is dead (Cf. James, 2. 20, 26), and since nobody can do anything befitting for the common good unless he himself first shines as an example of virtue before others.

7 you shall have no other gods before me.

8 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,

Obviously the use of the term worship is used in the sense of a special Devotion, and not as the Worship reserved only for God.


#3

Hello brother. First off, you write that “Catholics say they worship Mary”. That is not correct. No Catholic I know says that. Did you mean to say “Catholics say they don’t worship Mary?” That seems to make more sense and leads into the portion of Fulgens Corona you pasted.

Like so many other misunderstandings of Catholic theology by our protestant brothers and sisters, these things seem like a “slam dunk” when you cut and paste them, but fall apart when you understand. Let’s unpack this one together.

Fulgens corona is an encyclical by Pope Pius XII, written in 1953, on the Feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and proclaims a Marian year for 1954, to commemorate the centenary of the definition of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary. The part you bolded, however, which includes the part about nothing being “more dearer than to worship…the Mother of God” is not from Fulgens Corona, it is from Ineffabilis Deus.

Ineffabilis Deus ia a Papal bull by Pope Pius IX. that defined the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary and was promulgated in 1854. Yes, Pius IX did write that, but did he mean to put Mary on the same level as Jesus? To us in 2008, when we say “worship” it is commonly understood as showing devotion to a diety above all else. Remember though, that the word “worship” comes from the Old English word worthship, which denotes the worthiness of the one receiving a special honor or devotion. The audience of Pius IX in 1854 would understand that there are two forms of worship: The formal reverence and honor due only to God, and the devotion and love due to all other holy people. (You can still see vestiges of this today in the system of English Law where judges are referred to as “Your Worship”.

So you see, Pius IX is calling us to give honor and devotion to Mary but that is in no way even close to the reverence and glory we are to give to Jesus. You are reading an 1854 document with a 2008 vocabulary. To understand this more fully, pull up Ineffabilis Deus and read the whole Papal Bull.

Now, to finish up, let’s go back to Pius XII in 1953. Does he think we need to worship Mary the same as Jesus? Hardly. All you have to do is scroll up a couple of lines to section 15 of Fulgens Corona: [FONT=Arial]15. Non-Catholics and reformers are therefore mistaken when because of this pretext they find fault with, or disapprove of, our devotion to the Virgin Mother of God, as if it took something from the worship due to God alone and to Jesus Christ. The contrary is true because any honor and veneration which we may give to our Heavenly Mother undoubtedly redounds to the glory of her Divine Son, not only because all graces and all gifts, even the highest, flow from Him as from their primary source, but also because “The glory of children are their fathers” (Book of Proverbs, XVII 6).[/FONT]


#4

This English translation of FULGENS CORONA is no longer accurate because the English language has since evolved so that word “worship” no longer means what it did when this translation was first produced.


#5

Not only that, but consider:

In the King James version of the Bible you find this passage:

Luke 14:7-11
7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them, 8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him; 9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room. 10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: **then shalt thou have worship **in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. 11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Does this mean that readers of the KJV think they will be worshipped like God if they humble themselves? I hope not!! If they have a lick of education they know that this is an archaic use of the word, just like the selective quote the OP used.

What do you say to that, AACO8?

:whistle:

:yawn:

:sleep:


#6

(Edited)

Seriously, I hope that he will at least give us the courtesy to read and try to understand what we really believe rather than cutting and pasting what others told him to believe.


#7

I fail to see the FULGENS CORONA as using ARCHAIC English.

Because the word WORSHIP is a MODERN TRANSLATION (and therefore, the translators know the modern implications UNLIKE what you say) of the LATIN WORD FOR WORSHIP. Since the ENCYCLICAL was written in latin.

  1. Ao completar-se, pois, um século desde que o pontífice máximo, Pio IX, de imortal memória, definiu solenemente esse singular privilégio da virgem Mãe de Deus, apraz-nos resumir e concluir toda a questão com estas palavras do mesmo pontífice, quando afirmou que esta doutrina, segundo o juízo dos Padres, foi consignada na Sagrada Escritura, por eles mesmos transmitida, expressa por tantos e tão graves testemunhos e celebrada por tantos monumentos célebres da veneranda antigüidade e finalmente proposta pelo mais alto e autorizado juízo da Igreja, (9) de forma que nada é mais doce e mais querido para os sagrados pastores e para os féis do “que honrar, venerar, invocar e pregar, por toda a parte, com o mais fervoroso ardor, a virgem Mãe de Deus concebida sem pecado original”. (10)

I see here something amiss. They could have translated the word “QUE HONRAR, VENERAR …” as to honor and venerate, BUT they chose to translate the word HONRAR as WORSHIP.

If you see a document encouraging you to HONOR MARY, would you translate it to “WORSHIP MARY” ?

As to LUKE 14 Simple my friend. Note the context.

This is the LORD’S rendition of SOLOMON’S PROVERB

Prov 25:6-7
6 Put not forth thyself in the presence of the king, and stand not in the place of great men:
7 For better it is that it be said unto thee, Come up hither; than that thou shouldest be put lower in the presence of the prince whom thine eyes have seen.

The word WORSHIP there in the KJV has a clear meaning, it means HONOR. It is not WORSHIP followed by the words, filial DEVOTION, reverence, pray to, ask for the intercession, of the ONE WHO sat humbly and was promoted.

Why do you think people BOTH CATHOLICS and NON CATHOLICS have the mistaken notion that WORSHIP in the FULGENS CORONA really means worship in the true divine sense of the word?

Couldn’t it be because when you use the word MARIAN WORSHIP, it is followed by the words, FILIAL DEVOTION, asking others to pray to, AND praise, and hold her up as the queen of heaven, etc ??

THEN, the people really do, praise her, and fall down on her statue, and have novenas devoted to her, and offer to her their lives, and love her with all their might, soul, strength,

AND THE ONLY THING that really prevents people from calling it divine worship, is the absence of an edict which says every CATHOLIC is encouraged to WORSHIP MARY AS another GOD OR as the 4th member of the GODHEAD.

But all the works, words, and admonitions to WORSHIP her is there.

May the LORD GOD OPEN YOUR EYES.

Besides, MARIAN WORSHIP in RCC lingo is not limited to the MIDDLE AGES, it is prevalent even now:

SOURCE: VATICAN INFORMATION SERVICE (VIS)

MAY 7, 1997
vatican.va/news_services/vis/englinde.htm#start - VIS Home Page (Link no longer active)
vatican.va/news_services/vis/dinamiche/d0_en.htm - This Article On VIS (Link no longer active)

GENERAL AUDIENCE: MARY, MOTHER OF ALL THE REDEEMED

VATICAN CITY, MAY 7, 1997 (VIS) - The Holy Father dedicated today’s general audience to the Virgin Mary, and commented on the words that Jesus spoke from the Cross to St. John: “‘Behold your mother’, … with which he reveals to the Blessed Virgin the pinnacle of her motherhood.”

John Paul II expressed his wish that all might discover in these words of Jesus “the invitation to accept Mary as their mother, responding as true children to her motherly love.”

At the moment that Jesus entrusts his mother to St. John, “it is possible to understand the authentic meaning of Marian worship in the ecclesial community … which furthermore is based on the will of Christ.”

“The words ‘Behold your mother’,” continued the Holy Father, “express Jesus’s intention to awaken in his disciples an attitude of love and trust toward Mary, leading them to recognize in her their mother, the mother of all believers. In the Blessed Virgin’s school, the disciples learn, as John does, to know the Lord deeply” and to love him.

John Paul II underlined that “the history of Christian piety teaches that Mary is the path that leads to Christ, and that filial devotion to her does not at all diminish intimacy with Jesus, but rather, it increases it and leads it to very high levels of perfection.”

The Pope remarked that when the Gospel says that St. John welcomed Mary into his house, this “seems to show his initiative, full of respect and love, … to live the spiritual life in communion with her.”

He concluded by asking all Christians “to make room (for Mary) in their daily lives, acknowledging her providential role in the path of salvation.”

In his greetings in different languages at the end of the audience, the Holy Father reminded the Slovak pilgrims that tomorrow is the liturgical solemnity of the Ascension of the Lord: “The eternal Son of God, who lived for 33 years on Earth to be our Master and Redeemer, went up to heaven to prepare a place for us.”

AG/MARY/… VIS 970507 (350)


#8

You have merely provided evidence that in this situation worship is used in the context of honor. Know this that Latin is the prefered language of the Vatican.

Thank you he has, may he open your eyes to the truth of the Catholic Church.

The links you provided are “not active”.

I know for a fact that John Paul did not use the word “worship” in this address. I had an argument with the owner of a website over precisely this quote a couple years ago. When I looked it up John Paul did not use the word worship. The owner had changed the word from devotion to worship. I challenged him about it, and he said it was alright to change the wording of the quote, since it meant the same thing. I believe the word used was “devotion”. I lost my old computer and can’t verify it. Whatever word was used, here’s the kicker if it means the same thing as worship then why change the word to make a “false point”. By doing this it discredits his whole argument.


#9

Ah ha, I found the original document. You have definately changed the word from “devotion” to worship.

AAC08 You’ve been had.

Scroll down to Chapter 2 the beginning.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/1997/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_07051997_en.html

Changing the words of a quote is not exceptable when proposing an argument, especially when you provide non active links.

Are you trying to hide something??


#10

I see here something amiss. They could have translated the word “QUE HONRAR, VENERAR …” as to honor and venerate, BUT they chose to translate the word HONRAR as WORSHIP.

If you see a document encouraging you to HONOR MARY, would you translate it to “WORSHIP MARY” ?

I don’t know why those links were broken. It could be that the POPE really used the word MARIAN WORSHIP by mistake due to his filial devotion to MARY, and then CATHOLIC APOLOGISTs PLEADED with them to take out the offending words. Who’s to say with the SUPER SECRETIVE VATICAN?


#11

When a person understands the history of the word and that the bible gives examples of worship due to people other than God, well I would say I don’t have a problem with it.

Oh brother, now your bringing in conspiracy theory. Once you do that then there is no hope of finding the Truth. A conspiracy theorist will only accept what he wants to accept, and declare all other sources as cover-ups or lies, even though the conspiracy theorist has no factual evidence to support his own position.

If you are going to play this game, then why not just line up with the Davinci code.


#12

Conspiracy therories are the last refuge of those without facts. :cool:


#13

Friend… Your post is wrong in so many ways it is difficult to know were to start.

The above quote (Which you claim is the original Latin) is in fact the Italian translation. 

The original Latin is as follows:

Libet igitur Nobis, dum plenum volvitur saeculum, ex quo Pontifex Maximus imm. mem. Pius IX hoc singulare Deiparae Virginis privìlegium sollemniter sanxit, hisce eiusdem Pontificis sententiis causam universam quasi in unum referre ac concludere, hanc videlicet doctrinam asseverando « iudicio Patrum Divinis Litteris consignatam, tot gravissimis eorundem testimoniis traditam, tot illustribus venerandae antiquitatis monumentis expressam ac celebratam, ac maximo gravissimoque Ecclesiae iudicio propositam et confirmatam » (13) esse, ita quidem ut Sacris Pastoribus ac christifidelibus omnibus nihil sit « dulcius, nihil carius, quam ferventissimo affectu Deiparam Virginem absque labe originali conceptam ubique colere, venerari, invocare et praedicare » (14).

The Latin word for worship (In the context that you want to use it) is “adoleo” As you can see this word is not in the original document.

So, before you go around a making outrageous statements you should get your facts straight. The use of the word “worship” is an unfortunate error of the translator, but it is only that just an error. The sensitive Catholic reader reads this and say “ups a mistake not big deal”. The sensitive protestant readers reads this and say “hmmm this is weird let me dig a little deeper”, the not so sensitive protestant polemicist says “Ahhaaa!!! They are idolaters I knew it!!! Lets see what those guys at CAF have to say about this now!!!”

The rest of your post is just the same old protestant, diatribe. This has been addressed before, no sense repeating it again.

Next time try to be more careful in your research, it will save you a lot of embarrassment.

In His love…


#14

The verb used in the Latin original is colere, the related noun being cultus. The honour paid to a Saint is the Saint’s cultus - the word also appears in its English dress as “cult”. Agri-cultura is a related word - & no one accuses agriculturists of worship of an ager, or field. Words can disguise meanings, as well as express them - to find what words mean, we must look at what they refer to: the things referred to, come before the words that refer to them, not the other way around. A mayor in the United Kingdom is as addressed as “Your Worship”; many companies are "The Worshipful Company of [whatever the group’s trade may be]. “The House of Lords” may sound like a temple - it isn’t one. So words need to be handled with care.


#15

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