G.I.R.M


#1

G.I.R.M. Is it optional for the clergy? Most clergy spray it thinking it may cause disease. Is it fitting for the laity to call attention to actions of the clergy in violation of the "General Information of the Roman Missal? Too many of our clergy consider themselves to be “creative geniuses”. Who audits the clergy?


#2

So you can get a better response Jerome, I suggest posting this question in one of the other forums like Apologetics for example since this forum is used for folks introducing themselves to our community.

Welcome by the way


#3

The GIRM are guidelines regarding various aspects of worship and Mass. Purpose of music, postures, etc.

If you feel that there is a question of whether something you observed congradicts what the GIRM instructs, bring it up with your Parish Priest. If, however, you feel the result was unsatisfactory, bring it up with your Bishop, or Office of Worship for these are the people who enforce and interpret the guidelines.


#4

“Most clergy spray it thinking it may cause disease.”

What are they spraying?


#5

The General Instructions to the Roman Missal which contains a whole bunch of documents, including those involving the Liturgy. Also affectionately known as “The G.I.R.M.”

(Such a bad play on words isn’t it?)


#6

I actually talked to one young priest about liturgical abuses (violations of the G.I.R.M.) and found that he requested additional training in the liturgy and was sent off for more schooling.


#7

I’m well aware of WHAT the GIRM is but I still don’t get the spraying bit - it’s not something used during the Mass - when are they spraying it - just as confused as I was before:confused:


#8

[quote=deogratias]I’m well aware of WHAT the GIRM is but I still don’t get the spraying bit - it’s not something used during the Mass - when are they spraying it - just as confused as I was before:confused:
[/quote]

I can’t tell what you are referring to when you say ‘spraying’. Is this something that you are seeing at the beginning of a Mass? Is it something that the priest is doing at a particular time? The only correlation that I can find is the sprinkling of holy water that takes place during Easter season. Is that what you are referring to?


#9

Someone must have made a wise crack that went over your head.

We spray (disinfectant) to rid ourselves of "germs."
Someone must’ve made a quip about priests spraying for GIRMS. :wink:

By the way, if you’d like to read the GIRM, you can find it here:
usccb.org/liturgy/current/GIRM.pdf

Pax Christi. <><


#10

[quote=jerome]G.I.R.M. Is it optional for the clergy? Most clergy spray it thinking it may cause disease. Is it fitting for the laity to call attention to actions of the clergy in violation of the "General Information of the Roman Missal? Too many of our clergy consider themselves to be “creative geniuses”. Who audits the clergy?
[/quote]

The GIRM is not optional, it must be followed. Who “audits” the clergy? Frankly, no one (or, perhaps, I should say that there are “liturgical police” in every parish who will attempt to define what is good liturgy and what is bad). The problem with this is that they usually do so based upon a literal reading of the GIRM. As with most things that come from Rome, the GIRM is not to be interpreted literally but, rather, with the mind of Rome. That is sometimes hard to discern and so bishops in the United States will frequently ask for clarifications (dubium) to which they get a response (responsum ad dubium).

Deacon Ed


#11

[quote=Deacon Ed]As with most things that come from Rome, the GIRM is not to be interpreted literally but, rather, with the mind of Rome.
[/quote]

I don’t understand. If you aren’t supposed to take it literally… what is it for? “The mind of Rome” sounds a lot like “the spirit of Vatican II.”

I’m not trying to be mean or pushy; I just really don’t understand. Isn’t the GIRM like an instruction book? If you don’t follow the instructions as they are written when installing new software, it won’t be installed properly. So if priests don’t follow the GIRM as it is written, they are abusing the liturgy. Right?

Any clarification is appreciated. (:

God bless,
Laura


#12

Laura-The GIRM instructs what the “ideal” shouod be. However, if you do read it, you would think it contradicts itself at times.

What it tries to do is give a “general instruction” of what should be done rather than what “is” to be done. The GIRM takes into account that everything is not the same everywhere, and that different places will have different environment, different needs, and different resources or lack there of.

The GIRM is very interesting reading, especially if you are into Liturgical work. If you can’t afford to buy the books, the USCCB website has a webversion of the books.


#13

I was told by the Secretariat of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops that the GIRM carries with it the force of law.

In other words, to deviate from its stated norms and instructions is, canonically speaking, “illegal.”

Am I incorrect in this understanding?

Which is it? A mere guideline for cafeteria “Catholics” to select appealing practices; or a General Instruction on the basic practices to be observed by all?

Pax Christi. <><


#14

Let me see if I can explain this without sounding wishy-washy:

The GIRM indicates what “should” be done. The ideal setting, the norms by which we celebrate Mass, how Mass should be celebrated, questions on environment, music and postures. Everything that pertains to the Liturgy is written in it. As extensive as it looks, it is designed to give uniformity to the Church so that Mass and it’s various settings may have guidelines to what is proper.

For example: There is a sections on Celebration for Children, Celebrations with a Decan, Celebration without a Decan, Celebration where there is a Concelebrant, etc, etc, etc. There are every sections on posturing: when to sit, when to knee, when not to knee, when is it permissable to stand, not to stand, etc, etc.

However, there are always exceptions which tkae into account various circomstances which are unavoidable. The GIRM attempts to take this into account.

There are people within your Diocease that can answer any questions and/or concerns you have if you feel someting isn’t right in your Parish, or whether something being done is in line with the GIRM. In my Diocease it’s called the “Office Of Worship”. Yours may be called something else.

One example that occured several years ago had to do with Liturgical movement. As one thread put is, “Liturgical Dance”, a term we are not allowed to use in our Diocease anymore. The question was raised whether “dance” was appropriate within the Mass setting, and whether it should be included as part of the liturgical celebration. Of course, because this person was not satisfied with the answer from the Office Of Worship or the Bishop, it went all the way up to the Vatican where a “liturgical dance” was no longer permitted. However, “liturgical gestures” was appropriate as long as it enahces the Mass celebration and not considered a “performance” If you look in the GIRM, and I may have missed a thing or two, there is something called “liturgical movement”. Don’t remember if “dance” was every mentioned.


#15

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