A Christian-run bakery that refused to make a cake bearing a slogan supporting gay marriage could not in conscience produce a cake that they felt would be sinful, their lawyer has said.
Last year, Ashers Baking Company was found to have discriminated against a customer who placed the order in 2014.
The owners of the Belfast shop are seeking to overturn that judgement.
Why not just bake the cake? What’s the big deal? If they think it’s sinful, they should talk to a priest!
Asher’s baking is run by Protestants not Catholics, it is well known as a family concern in the north of Ireland and employs people from Catholic and Protestant backgrounds. Given that the six counties is relatively small and has a population of just over 1.7 million and that baker chain is well known (as are the religious convictions of those who run it) there is no way this bakery was picked accidentally for those whole carry on.
If they asked a Catholic baker to bake a cake affirming abortion, artificial birth control, or anti-Catholicism would we force them to bake it? What if the owner was gay and someone wanted a cake that said “God hates fags.” Or a Jewish baker be asked to bake a Hitler cake?
I mean are we really at the point where business owners must be compelled to surrender their freedom of expression and violate their consciences in order to comply with over-reaching anti-discrimination laws? Remember, they did not refuse to sell a cake to a gay man; they only refused to create a work of art containing a message that they disagreed with.
This is the art work they were asked to create:
Equal rights means just that, equal. Respect must go both ways. unfortunately, I can’t think how to do that here without starting an argument! I just love the 21st Century!
I once knew someone on NationStates who was in favor of forcing Ashers Baking Company to bake the cake. He claimed that he was conservative, but he called anyone who was defending the religious liberty rights of Ashers Baking Company homophobes. His post is here:forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=303670&p=20848742#p20848742 I am letting all of you know about this guy because he is now running for political office in the state of Arizona as a conservative candidate. He does not respect religious liberty though. His real name is Timothy DesJarlais. Be cautious of him.
I think Christians need to stop compromising and defending themselves, and go on the offensive. We don’t need to defend our rights not to be involved with gay “marriages,” rather it is these blind men who need to explain how they can possibility justify their obviously irrational and immoral understanding of the sexual appetite* The fact that we act defensive in regard to the blind is a sort of self fulfilling prophecy: we say that we can’t convince the powers that be that the sexual appetite has an intristic purpose, and therefore we should defend our rights to not be involved with the newest fad of sexual immorality, which is interpreted by the immoral as proving that the rational understanding of sex is mere opinion, arbritrary, and based on religion** St. Augustine wrote that the truth is like a lion: there is not need to defend it, just let loose and run wild
Of course, we moderns have abandoned reason long ago, and now judge based on sentiments, which of course are easily moved by the spirit of this age…
*I know people are going to flip out by me speaking this truth, but the liberal understanding is so foolish that it just proves how badly lust rots the mind that they can’t see their own folly :shrug:
**Another problem: somehow Protestants have convinced us that religion ought to be a private affair, which is of course wrong.
I don’t think they ever are. Ever notice how it’s always straight, white Christian business owners who bare this brunt?
Despite the claim that this is so terribly necessary and denying them service is so awful, they cannot bring themselves to show up at a Muslim bakery in Dearborn, Michigan, Harlem, New York or Malmo, Sweden and pull this.
It’s because at the end of the day, even the gay “marriage” movement is not allowed to interfere with the election of liberal politicians or go after minority religions.
Yet we’re supposed to be sold on the fact that this the automatic future forever! :rolleyes:
Sadly, that’s not uncommon. In fact, the reason why a lot of this happens is because conservatives sell-out on their principles for things like farm subsidies, union benefits and/or funding for football stadiums.
As Jason Lewis notes “social liberalism begets fiscal liberalism”.
So I assume if you were a baker you would have no problem baking a cake promoting the nuclear arms race ?
If it promoted hatred I would not bake the cake, but if it’s love between a same sex couple, I would do it but not necessarily like it. If it was hatred against the church, I would not do it. As for abortions, I’m not sure what I would do other than maybe talk to a priest and an attorney. I honestly do not see anything wrong with same sex marriages based on love, and I would not necessarily condemn them, but the sin of sex which may or may not be taking place. There are fine lines in cultural norms, and I would hate to be dragged into the middle of it. But again, homosexual marriages has become a cultural norm, and I doubt that these types of marriages will last long, but I think I would support the love that they are trying to achieve, even though I believe they are going down a slippery slope.
Well, slavery used to be a cultural norm as well.
I think that if someone owns a business catering to weddings in the West, they ought to figure out a strategy of how to deal this, and yes, getting some kind of spiritual direction is a good or even necessary idea.
I will also reiterate the Church’s position that so-called gay “marriage” is intrinsically wrong regardless of how inconvenient it is for folks or even if it is promoted by the current culture to be “normal”.
True, this looks like a set-up.
Kudos to them for resisting.
As far as I can see, “slavery” is still present in our society with many people not being able to make ends meet for lack of a living wage. I pray for them and would take risks to help them if I was in a position to do so.
If you were a baker make a cake promoting slavery?
I assure you I know the north of Ireland and people there do not like to be pontificated to on these kind of issues up there and locals are more local to take Asher’s side than the side of those trying to get local businesses to stick Bert and Ernie on cakes to promote oganisations. Much of the north still has high unemployment and this is tiresome agenda politics they could do without up there.
You are going down that slippery slope. Too many contingencies. Either you are for gay marriage or against it. What is it Robert?
If a person thinks something us sinful then it IS a big deal. If a person thinks something is sinful then they should not do it. You don’t just think, “I believe this ti be sinful, but I’ll just do it anyway and talk to a priest about it later, no big deal.”
As to talking to a priest, they are not Catholic.
Gay marriage is against the teachings of the Church and against the teachings of other Christian denominations, so to bake a cake with a sligan promoting something that is wrong would, in my opinion ( and presumably in theirs also) be a sin. They were right not to do so.
That is an accurate view of Northern Ireland and the people there.
As Catholics, we recognize that whatever that relationship is based on, it is not ‘love’.
Love is an attribute of God. Anything that is displeasing to God, cannot be love.
Sexual acts between those of the same sex, in fact, those outside of true marriage, are damaging to the soul. Love does not damage, but builds up. Ergo, once again, it cannot be love.