Gay Danish couples win right to marry in church (Danish Lutheran Church)


#1

The country’s parliament voted through the new law on same-sex marriage by a large majority, making it mandatory for all churches to conduct gay marriages.
Denmark’s church minister, Manu Sareen, called the vote “historic”.
“I think it’s very important to give all members of the church the possibility to get married. Today, it’s only heterosexual couples.”
Under the law, individual priests can refuse to carry out the ceremony, but the local bishop must arrange a replacement for their church.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/9317447/Gay-Danish-couples-win-right-to-marry-in-church.html

This is a frightening development. I hope the Church (and all churches) will stand strong.


#2

Does Denmark have a national church. I could see a state church being made to comply with state law but it seems a stretch to force other churches to do the same. They will simply end up with a bunch of priests in jail. I’m not sure what that would accomplish.


#3

They do have a state sponsored Church, and apparently their Church Minister (a political position, I think) is an agnostic…which makes no sense to me.


#4

The new law applies to Denmark’s state church. Other churches are exempt.

Catholic Church not affected by new same-sex marriage law in Denmark

Denmark’s Parliament last week voted by a large margin to force churches belonging to the state Lutheran Church to conduct same-sex marriage ceremonies inside their sanctuaries. The law goes into effect June 15.

Under the legislation, individual priests can refuse to carry out the ceremony, but they cannot forbid the ceremony from taking place in their church building.

“For the moment we [the Catholic Church] are not worried,” said Niels Messerschmidt, the Information Officer for the Catholic Diocese of Copenhagen.
en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/06/10/catholic_church_not_affected_by_new_same-sex_marriage_law_/1101583


#5

Thank you for the information! None of the articles I read mentioned this.


#6

Denmark has a national church, but the Danes by and large are atheists or agnostics, as are the majority of Scandinavians. I think the Swedish and Norwegian churches have been separated from their respective governments.


#7

That’s strange. I guess I could look it up but I’m lazy: what denomination are they? I’m thinking Luthern but could be misremembering.

I doubt it would ever happen but what if this type of situation happened in Poland? Isn’t the National Church there in communion with Rome?


#8

Poland is overwhelmingly Catholic, but the Church, as far as I know, isn’t sponsored by the government. And yes, the Scandinavian churches are Lutheran, as is the official Protestant churches in Germany and here in Austria. They aren’t sponsored either directly, but we do have the church tax which generally goes into maintenance and upkeep of the more historically notable churches, monasteries, synagogues, and mosques. I don’t know how it works in Germany, but in Austria you list your religion in your local registry so that your individual tax goes to your church (i.e. Catholics to the Catholic institutions). If you don’t want to pay it, you have to go through bureaucratic circles. Most people pay the tax regardless, it isn’t much.


#9

It is beyond shameful what Europe has become. Even Luther would roll over in his grave.


#10

Shocking isn’t it…“Gay marriage would never be allowed in the US”…Oh wait…It is legal in 19 out of 50 States

reuters.com/article/2014/06/10/us-usa-court-gaymarriage-insight-idUSKBN0EL10820140610


#11

Sorry, I changed this post because I am half asleep and it made no sense as I was typing. :smiley:

They are trying to chip away until its forced on everyone.


#12

No one can force you to do what is against your conscience. What would they do if clergy of other denominations refused to perform the ceremony? Arrest all of them? Christians refused to worship pagan gods under pain of death, I think we can trust priests to refuse to obey laws contrary to the faith. You also forget that the largest group practicing their religion in Scandinavia are Muslims, I don’t think their governments want to cause a confrontation.


#13

Well, that’s what happens when you ask temporal powers to help you against the “papists”, like Luther did, i.e., the state was not only able to govern temporal matters but spiritual as well (Lutheranism grew in large part due to state adoption, i.e., if the monarch/head of state became Lutheran so did all his subjects by default).


#14

That would be a wonderful result for the Church, quite frankly. Sad in the short term, beautiful in the long term.


#15

But they can sure punish you if you do not fall into line. Like I said, chipping away until its forced on everyone.


#16

What would you expect from a protestant church,

They change their beliefs about every 20 years and they never really knew what they believed in the first place.

Coincidentally the 40 000 protestant “churchs” do not even agree with each other

The church of Denmark was never a true christian church in the first place, why would anyone be surprised that they teach heresy. They have been doing it for the last 500 years.

I didnt think anyone even went to the Church of Denmark these days. Terrible shame these great christian buildings have been turned into museums, now defiled by Homosexual “marriages”.

Another terrible blow for Christendom.


#17

They change their beliefs about every 20 years and they never really knew what they believed in the first place.

:clapping:


#18

A twist on religious liberty:

Washington Twp. pastor fights law that fines clergy for gay marriage

A Baptist organization led by a local pastor has joined a lawsuit aimed at overturning North Carolina’s constitutional ban on same-sex marriage on the grounds that the ban violates religious freedoms.

"(The law) doesn’t just deal with marriage equality; it goes to the heart of religious liberty," said Mike Castle, president of the Alliance of Baptists and pastor of Harmony Creek Church in Washington Twp.

North Carolina’s ban makes it a misdemeanor for ministers to perform marriage ceremonies for couples that do not have state marriage licenses. Ministers who perform marriages also can be sued by anyone for performing the marriages.

Source


#19

Ive said it before and will say it again, this WILL eventually happen in the US and Id bet our leaders will force the church to allow the marriage to take place, maybe even force the priest to marry them!! ( OK, that may be going to far, but definitely…a marriage in a church will happen).

I think a gay couple will complain about not being able to marry in a church and explain how they want an old fashioned traditional marriage ceremony in a large catholic church, it will go thru the courts, maybe even to the supreme court, but in the end, I think the judges will order it to be allowed…of course, then we need to pay very close attention to what the church does and tells it parish members to do.

I have a feeling though, the head priest would choose to just allow the ceremony, I dont see them fighting the local law over this though. But once this happens, that single event will have forever changed the entire church.

Im also curious about the people will respond to this…will they stand up and fight or sit back and accept it? Id bet its the latter, just going from what Ive seen in the past.


#20

You’re kidding, right? Churches can still legally refuse to accommodate interracial marriages (let alone forcing a minister into presiding!) within their walls to this very day, and interracial marriage has been legal everywhere for getting nigh on 50 years. Examples of modern refusals here, here, and here.

Churches cannot be forced to perform ceremonies they don’t want to perform or want performed within their church, period. You can no more sue them to marry you any more than you can sue them to give you Eucharist or absolution!

The ONLY exception MIGHT be is if you rent your church (that your congregation, diocese, etc. owns) out to the general public (most churches don’t), you might have to accommodate all comers and even then, the clergy can’t be forced into it against their will.

First amendment protections tend to be extremely broad when it comes to use of a church and the actions of clergy. SSM simply isn’t going to change this.


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