Gay hostility in class


#1

Hi everyone! I’m not gay but I have gay friends and I have always been raised to be friends with everyone. My rcia teacher talked a little about the 10 commandments from the catechism book and she said homosexuality is a disorder. I was speechless. We all were. It isn’t a dang disease. I understand gay marriage not being natural law and all but calling it a disorder? Things like this make me feel uncomfortable about my path. I was really feeling “at home” spiritually. I dont want to be a “cafeteria catholic” either


#2

It’s a disorder because males are meant to be with females and females with males and that’s all. It wasn’t said to be a criticism of anybody.


#3

That’s not a big deal. Everything that strays from God’s plan is a disorder.


#4

The catechism called same-sex sexual acts “objectively disordered”. In this case, the word “disorder” is not being used in a clinical/medical sense. It is not being used as a synonym for the word “disease”. Rather, it refers to those acts being contrary to the nature of sexual acts (unitive and procreative) ie not correctly ordered ie disordered.


#5

Thank you for clarifying the semiotics of it!! I was taking her lesson as if It’s a disease!


#6

It’s not the “disorder” you’re thinking of.
It’s not like they’re saying he’s sick or mentally deranged.
It means that homosexual is not in order with natural or scriptural law.
A lot of things can be described that way.
As a drinker of alcohol, in my past, I’d say that was a disordered behavior.
Hope this helps.
Love everyone.


#7

You’re young and your formation is incomplete.

Disorder doesn’t mean disease.

One can have disorder in one’s life…messy things, unreconciled ideas, habits not conducive to productive work, etc.

One can be disordered in their sexual practices too.

A married couple perhaps might get disordered about how they practice sex…too much (at the expense of work, friends, practices of staying close to God, etc.).

Or they can get disorderd in their practice. They might dabble in porn, threesomes etc.

Those practices are morally disordered (to the good of their marriage and souls).

Homosexual sex is objectively disorderd to the nature of their persons as men or women.

Such sex goes against the grain of their body (setting aside mere feelings).

Thus it’s disordered to the nature of their own person.


#8

Very helpful. Thank you!!! I wish she explained that in class!


#9

Homosexuality is disordered. That doesn’t mean gay people are the disorder themselves. They just have inclinations which are disordered.


#10

Disorder does not equal disease.

Did your teacher go on to tell you we must love our neighbour and this includes gay neighbours. For the Catholic Church a homosexual is expected to practice the same chastity as a single person. And marriage is only between male and female.
We don’t shun those who are homosexual. They are still our friends, family, neighbours.
Welcome home to the church


#11

No problem. It’s a common misunderstanding.

Welcome home!


#12

Dis-order means absence of order. Homosexuality was considered to be a “disorder” until about 30 years ago, when the social attitudes began to change.

You being friends with homosexuals (is it a sex thing or a gender identity with them?) is fine. After all, Jesus Christ did not reject the tax collectors and harlots, who by the standards of the day were just as bad.

The point is that the secular orthodoxy forced upon you at school and the new social norms of the mass media are putting you in a position of having to decide what is or isn’t real; what is or isn’t the truth.

Yes, you do love your neighbor, including those who are gay, or even those who are not your friends.
But, calling something disordered for what it is does not necessarily constitute hostility.

For thousands of years civilizations developed a sense of what is or isn’t ordered, what is or isn’t natural. Our society has turned much of it upside down in the last two or three decades. We now think that we are wiser and more enlightened than everyone who ever came before us. All the philosophers, scientists, saints of the past millennia are now considered to be useless if the present ideology disagrees with them. I don’t know if I would be all that comfortable with this notion. But, the decision is yours. Give it some serious thought.


#13

We can thank the Diadnostic Service Manual Version IV and beyond which no longer regards it as disordered. In this way, American society was enabled to lead the way by normalizing the abnormal and so legitimizing it in other parts of the world. In 2015 the TV series in the US came out; now there is same sex affection on commercials. It is to the next generation to answer “mommy, why are those two men kissing” and to be prepared that “if your church does not marry our kind, it should not be licensed to do marriage in our state.” This is the tip of the iceberg…


#14

It’s not a good word to use.

Many (most?) psychologists and psychiatrists do not consider it a disorder in that sense, either.

But using Catholic philosophical-theological language, we have to be careful. Shame on your teacher if she did not go on to describe what she meant.

What she should have said is that homosexual activity is disordered, just as masturbation is disordered, or any sexual acts outside of marriage or not open to life. All of these are not ordered to sexuality’s proper end.

But yes, we have to get away from calling homosexual orientation a disorder, because it’s not something that can be “cured,” in the fist place, though I guess a select few have claimed to change their orientation.


#16

I was able to change mine…


#17

It’s still disordered as an inclination as well as other inclinations that stray from the end that God made them for.


#18

Doesn’t contradict anything I said, but thanks for the input!


#19

Not really sure where this deviates from what I said.

However, if you’re going to teach RCIA, you better go on to explain what you mean. Maybe the instructor did. But the OP just said the teacher called homosexuality a disorder without going on.


#20

Right. But not all people really are born that way. I do think it really comes down to several other factors. Just a thought though.

I just dont think it’s assimple as someone being born wanting to have sexual relations with the same sex. I have been thinking about this a lot and I keep thinking about Theology of the body and how I think as humans we someone’s mistake attraction to wanting to have sex with someone when attraction is more of a spiritual thing to being with.


#21

I don’t think there is necessarily a single determining factor to make one “gay” as opposed to “straight.”

But I do think homosexual orientation is a biological, unchosen basis — probably related to factors one is born with. At least for many people.

But this shouldn’t give a Catholic pause, save for to be compassionate and understanding in how they accompany LGBT folk.

Catholic theology acknowledges that our very bodies are not what they should be.

And because we are body-soul wholes, our body is influential in our sinful struggles as well. So “born this way” doesn’t have any bearing on morality per se, except that it may lessen culpability of individual persons.


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