Gay hostility in class


#22

example. Some people cheat on spouses because they find someone else attractive. But really when it comes to attraction we should thank God for his creativity in making a beautiful human being. The attraction is this desire to know the person on a deeper level. But our world and our flesh tell us that sexual activity helps us to understand the soul of a person when we all know that’s not true.


#23

So marital relations don’t help spouses understand each other?


#24

Hi Rachel! It’s important to think of the etymology of the word “disorder,” which clearly stems from the word “order.” The natural order of the world is for men and women to be together. "The word “disorder” simply means “upset the order of;” in other words, romantic relationships between two people of the same gender do not follow God’s natural order for the world. The Church does not mean to be hateful by asserting that same-sex attraction is “objectively disordered.”

Feel free to message me if you have any follow-up questions. I would be happy to talk with you on this subject. I personally know of quite a few people who have SSA (same-sex attraction), so this issue hits close to home for me.


#25

Read what I said please. Sexual relation do not help us to understand a soul of a person. Our communion with a person does. Marital sex is also different because it is a sacramental sex. But I hope you don’t just use sex to know your spouses soul.


#26

Not really. It’s different in that it’s licit, but the act itself isn’t fundamentally altered.

I’m not married, but that’s beside the point. Sex isn’t the only way to experience intimacy, but it is an important component for many people.


#27

Modern psychology has been pressured into this position by the liberal media and the general liberal trajectory of society…they capitulated, to the detriment of truth…the Church is being pressured by the same liberal trajectory, but will not - can not - capitulate.


#28

Stop this nonsense


#29

Being gay lesbian bisexual pansexual sexually fluid etc is totally not a disorder. I’m bisexual so I’m used to people like this.


#30

In theology, the word disorder is used to talk about actions that are not properly directed towards the proper end.
Fornication, masturbation, and homosexuality are all disordered. It’s not a criticism. It’s a statement of fact. As fallen people, we all experience disordered inclinations or temptations. It’s not a word to describe the person, but to describe the inclinations.


#31

It’s not as simple as that. In order for something to be considered a “disorder” in the DSM, it must significantly impair someone’s ability to function. Since homosexuality doesn’t fit this description for most people, it doesn’t belong in the DSM. There are lots of gay people who function fine, have good jobs, are socially well adapted, etc.


#32

Not a disorder. Disordered. Two different words with two very different meanings. One a noun, the other a verb. The noun is the one you think is being used. The verb is the one actually being used.


#33

Either one is wrong.


#34

In the DSM, which was first published in 2013, decades after the liberal trajectory forced the change?
What did you expect?
The suicide rate among those with SSA is three times that of the heterosexual population…among youth, that rises to four times the heterosexual rate…that just might impair ability to function.


#35

Why do you think that might be?

Could it be because of how society treats them, because of the harassment they have to put up with, abandonment by their families, and the like?


#36

“Disorder” does not mean “disease”.

I was born with dwarfism. My body is disordered, it shows the scars of Original Sin that, to boil it down, have damaged part of my DNA. I don’t have a disease, one would not pray that God heal me from my dwarfism, heck we have a couple of Blesseds/Saints who also lived with dwarfism and I look to them to be examples of they way I can carry my cross.

Going to bet that most people you know have one disorder or another when you think of a disorder as something that makes us less than perfect.


#37

I’d hope you have been given a copy of the Catechism for reference in your instruction. If not, you can buy it in book form, you can buy it for Kindle, read it at the Vatican website or you can search it online here http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Have you read the Catechism section on homosexuality (the footnotes will lead you to deeper study):

Chastity and homosexuality

[2357] Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

[2359] Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.


#38

I was thinking the same way too. If someone tells me I have an illness, curable or not curable, physical or psychical (even though many psychic disorders are also physical based on imbalanced substances of the nervous system), why would I get mad? I mean I can accept the diagnosis or not accept it. Nobody can force me to accept it. But just because someone calls me disordered (which I am in other ways than homosexuality) why take offense? If someone would call me mean names or say my disorder is punishment for X flaw in me then I would get mad and inquire if they are God or something and if yes give me a sign to prove it.
A behavioral disorder means even though you think about it don’t act upon all the thoughts that come to mind. I think this is what the Catechism implies about homosexuality that it’s a behavioral disorder and acting upon that tendency leads not to a solution of it but to more problems.


#39

Words have meanings; if they don’t have meaning then communication is pointless. If communication is not happening, what results is assertion, or using words arbitrarily to assert power. That’s not communication.

The word disordered is used in regard to sexuality and many other acts and ideas to describe actions that are not ordered to a good end.

By analogy… if someone hit you in the head with a hammer and said “I am just trying to talk to you”, what would you call that? Do you have a word for it?
And so with a homosexual act: the equipment is not designed to be used in that way. That usage is not ordered toward the good end of sexuality. (you will probably have to think about what the good end of sexuality is, at this point).

If someone says to you “I am a kangaroo” you would have to describe this assertion as “wrong”, or some other word to convey the falsity of the assertion.
Likewise, a the assertion of a man who says “I am a woman” or vice versa, should be described in some way that points out the absurdity of the claim.

Does this make sense?
If honest communication can’t be had, you end up with chaos and injustice. And no one wants injustice.


#40

Exactly. Thanks to Adam and Eve, that which was originally created rightly ordered is susceptible to disorder.


#41

I agree completely…the last person to be born without one disorder or another was crucified 2,000 years ago.


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