Gay hostility in class


#63

Third time, you made a claim. If you cannot provide the documentation, simply say “you know, I got that wrong, the Catechism says something else”.


#64

Things are not a mental disorder just because you can’t choose them.


#65

That was the third time I have supported my statement, this time with direct quotes from the Catechism. The Catechism presupposes that it is a mental disorder, and thus that those who suffer from it have a mental health issue. I accept that as a possibility, and perhaps a probability, but I also suspect that homosexuality is, at a minimum, self caused by some sinful choice.

“Things” in general aren’t, but some “things” are. The way you can tell is if the mental condition is opposed to (or prevents the right function of) the natural order. Homosexuality is clearly and obviously and “intrinsically” opposed to the natural order, and possibly even prevents the right function of the brain. Therefore it is objectively a mental disorder of some kind. Either natural or self-caused.

edit: “order” would probably be more properly understood than “law”


#66

That’s because it is


#67

ccc 2357 “Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained

Bold mine.


#68

Why would anyone choose to feel inclined that way? As much as it might be put across in the press and on these forums even that it’s easier to be gay that is not the case in real life.


#69

That would surely mean that those who commit homosexual acts are therefore not culpable? Take for example those who commit suicide but are afflicted with a mental illness; there is a tendency now to recognise that they are not culpable due to mental illness.


#70

Better whitewash the depiction of the Last Judgement in the Sistine Chapel then. Can’t have the faithful looking upon the work of a mentally disordered or sinful man in the off chance he made a choice to be homosexual (plenty of evidence that Michaelangelo was gay or bisexual).


#71

I’m sure this has already been addressed in every post before mine, but “disorder” doesn’t necessarily mean “disease”. “Disorder” simply means “out of order”. So, in this case, calling homosexuality disordered (not “a disorder” in the medical sense of the term) is the same thing as calling it unnatural or against God’s will. Calling homosexuality disordered is not saying that it is caused by a pathogen, genetic mutation, or otherwise that it is a medical disorder. It is a spiritual disorder.


#72

I never said it was easier. Sorry you must be responding to the wrong person.


#73

What you’re saying is that when you tell them the truth, they get depressed…
You have drawn some interesting conclusions here, but there’s nothing to back them up but your opinion.


#75

there is no “gay gene” for example.


#76

no absolutely not


#78

Two simple questions:
Do you think human existence is a good thing?
How does human existence come about, and how does it flourish?
Do these considerations steer your thinking to any exceptional values at all, or is it good to use a hammer to cut a cake? Yea, that’s one of the “multiple ends” of a hammer. You can cut a cake with a hammer.
Right?

Almost all human activities have multiple “ends”, and - as long as the activity is beneficial or neutral toward others - it is no one else’s business to declare which “end” is “good”.

I can’t think of many situations where “no one else’s business” forms the foundation of good decision making. Human society would not be possible if this were the standard of behavior, or standard of morality. You hear this assertion all the time, and it is simplistic and not very genuine, as the proponents of it don’t believe it themselves.


#79

Thank God!!

If it was any other way, we would cease to exist within a few generations…


#81

As I said, they suppose it to be some kind of unchosen mental disorder. I suspect it is caused by some chosen sin either in the past or assiduous.

That tendency is flawed and in most cases heretical.

This does not follow from anything I have said. If you feel as though only things made by perfect people should be admired then that is your prerogative. I have no such prejudice.


#82

What is health? Is it not the proper ordering of the creature as regards its functions?

So when a person is homosexual, where is that disorder? Is it in their foot? Is it in their finger? Of course not, it is in the mind.

When someone has a disordered body, we call them unhealthy. A person with a bad heart is unhealthy because they have a disorder in their heart. A person with lung cancer is unhealthy because they have a disorder in their lungs.

So a person with a disorder in their mind is mentally unhealthy. They have a mental health disorder.

Either homosexuality is a mental disorder or it is a sinful choice. One or the other. Pick one, or both. There is no third option.


#83

And it is GOD that decided that. I am certainly NOT going to argue with God.


#84

I just don’t understand why this has to be a debate. Can’t you just live and let live


#85

Obviously. But that obviously won’t happen. So let lgbtq people be themselves


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