Gay Marriage Is Now Legal in Washington

Gay Marriage Is Now Legal in Washington

"Washington is now the sixth place in the nation where same-sex marriages can take place. Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Vermont also issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples…

The law survived Congressional attempts to block it, and on Tuesday Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. rejected a request from opponents of gay marriage to have the United States Supreme Court put the new law on hold."

Whoopdedoo…

Good for them…

People should be concerned about their own marriages…considering the ridiculous rates of divorce, infidelity and spousal abuse…

Yeah…if one was really concerned about the “sanctity of marriage” these issues above would be addressed…

but naaaah…let’s instead attack gay folk for the crime of wanting to marry their partner.

Seems like a good day to me. On Tuesday, when the couples are actually married, it will be even better.

Update…Same-sex couple were legally married in DC, beginning earlier today.

Same-Sex Couple in DC Say ‘I Do’

The district joins Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Vermont in allowing same-sex couples to marry.

These are unions in man's eyes....not God's.

[quote="dotFaith, post:5, topic:189214"]
These are unions in man's eyes....not God's.

[/quote]

Exactly. We have no right nor ability to change what marriage is.

They can all pretend, but in the end they're just living a lie.

Are Muslims supportive of same-sex marriage?

[quote="Ahimsa, post:7, topic:189214"]
Are Muslims supportive of same-sex marriage?

[/quote]

There are no Muslim majority countries where same-sex marriage is currently legal.

It has been discussed very seriously in one country, Albania (estimated around 70% Muslim). Albania's gay rights bill, passed earlier this year, ended up NOT including a provision for same-sex marriage, though it was otherwise very progressive.

Turkey likewise has certain protections in place, and homosexuality is not illegal.

Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, does not allow for same-sex marriage, homosexuality is legal, openly practiced and widely accepted. When certain Islamic leaders tried to make it illegal, not that long ago, the law was quickly shot down and the whole idea was rejected as an illegitimate form of "Arabizing" Islam and Indonesian culture.

Pakistan has recently recognized the hijra, and have given them legal status as a third sex protected by all the civil rights granted citizens. As far as I know the issue of marriage has not yet be broached, in this regard.

Iran is in some ways the most interesting case. Homosexuality is illegal, and marriage is unavailable. But the late Ayatollah issued a fatwa suggesting transsexuality as a solution for those who are attracted to the same sex. Part of the concern was to make marriage available to those persons. I do not know if they still do it, but, for a while at least, Iran actually helped pay for sex change operations. So homosexuality is not legal, but one can be transsexual in Iran. *

In most of the Arab world homosexuality is illegal and socially unacceptable. Egypt is one example of this. Technically there are no laws against homosexuality in Egypt, but people in same-sex relationships have been prosecuted for violating religious and moral sensibilities. Most Arabs (and probably most Deobandis, etc. in places like India) would tell you that homosexuality is forbidden by the Qur'an (the Qur'an contains some stuff on Lot (pbuh), etc. that is similar to what one might find in the Bible).

So there are various responses to sexuality and gender. I think the conversation, often, does not always map on well to Western categories. In Egypt for instance it may well be the case that someone prefers same-sex relationships, but the expectation that you will marry and have children is still so strong that even if you identify as gay, gays still often presume that they are going to marry someone of the opposite sex. And the fact that Americans and Europeans don't see things that way is often very puzzling to them. You have also seen in some cases the attempts of Western activists to make the hijra of India and Pakistan into Western transsexuals, and that may be what they seem to be to most Westerners. But that is not how they have traditionally been seen or understood on the subcontinent.

Finally American Muslims: Arabian Muslims have shown little support for homosexuality or homosexual marriage in the US. Those from southeast Asia tend to be more supportive of it, I believe. I say this mostly from experience, not with any hard data in front of me. African-American Muslims are usually indistinguishable from their non-Muslim peers on most issues (there are numbers for that), so I would expect to find them largely opposed to gay marriage. White women make up the largest growing group amongst converts and they tend to be more liberal in their social views.

Saqib Ali is the only major Muslim, American, politician that I know of to speak out on the issue. He has worked for gay marriage in his home state of Maryland, arguing that it should not be approached as a religious issue. He says he hopes to see it legal in Maryland by 2011, and that its passage throughout the US is inevitable.*

[quote="Hypatia, post:8, topic:189214"]
There are no Muslim majority countries where same-sex marriage is currently legal.

It has been discussed very seriously in one country, Albania (estimated around 70% Muslim). Albania's gay rights bill, passed earlier this year, ended up NOT including a provision for same-sex marriage, though it was otherwise very progressive.

Turkey likewise has certain protections in place, and homosexuality is not illegal.

Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, does not allow for same-sex marriage, homosexuality is legal, openly practiced and widely accepted. When certain Islamic leaders tried to make it illegal, not that long ago, the law was quickly shot down and the whole idea was rejected as an illegitimate form of "Arabizing" Islam and Indonesian culture.

Pakistan has recently recognized the hijra, and have given them legal status as a third sex protected by all the civil rights granted citizens. As far as I know the issue of marriage has not yet be broached, in this regard.

Iran is in some ways the most interesting case. Homosexuality is illegal, and marriage is unavailable. But the late Ayatollah issued a fatwa suggesting transsexuality as a solution for those who are attracted to the same sex. Part of the concern was to make marriage available to those persons. I do not know if they still do it, but, for a while at least, Iran actually helped pay for sex change operations. So homosexuality is not legal, but one can be transsexual in Iran. *

In most of the Arab world homosexuality is illegal and socially unacceptable. Egypt is one example of this. Technically there are no laws against homosexuality in Egypt, but people in same-sex relationships have been prosecuted for violating religious and moral sensibilities. Most Arabs (and probably most Deobandis, etc. in places like India) would tell you that homosexuality is forbidden by the Qur'an (the Qur'an contains some stuff on Lot (pbuh), etc. that is similar to what one might find in the Bible).

So there are various responses to sexuality and gender. I think the conversation, often, does not always map on well to Western categories. In Egypt for instance it may well be the case that someone prefers same-sex relationships, but the expectation that you will marry and have children is still so strong that even if you identify as gay, gays still often presume that they are going to marry someone of the opposite sex. And the fact that Americans and Europeans don't see things that way is often very puzzling to them. You have also seen in some cases the attempts of Western activists to make the hijra of India and Pakistan into Western transsexuals, and that may be what they seem to be to most Westerners. But that is not how they have traditionally been seen or understood on the subcontinent.

Finally American Muslims: Arabian Muslims have shown little support for homosexuality or homosexual marriage in the US. Those from southeast Asia tend to be more supportive of it, I believe. I say this mostly from experience, not with any hard data in front of me. African-American Muslims are usually indistinguishable from their non-Muslim peers on most issues (there are numbers for that), so I would expect to find them largely opposed to gay marriage. White women make up the largest growing group amongst converts and they tend to be more liberal in their social views.

Saqib Ali is the only major Muslim, American, politician that I know of to speak out on the issue. He has worked for gay marriage in his home state of Maryland, arguing that it should not be approached as a religious issue. He says he hopes to see it legal in Maryland by 2011, and that its passage throughout the US is inevitable.*

Hypatia, Thank you for your post it was very informative. I would have guessed that the Muslim community would have been even more conservative than what you have presented. While we are miles apart theologically I respect practicing Muslims for their zeal. We used to have that zeal but by and large we Catholics have become quite secular. The good thing is I really see a reversal in that trend and see in the near future a renewal in Catholicism that will be beyond anything that has transpired in the past.
We as Catholics will never accept Gay Marriage. It just won't ever happen.
Have you ever seriously explored the roots of your religion? Please do not misunderstand me I am just honestly inquiring if you ever had taken an unbiased look at Islam and an unbiased look at authentic Roman Catholicism. There are a lot of things we hold in common.

[/quote]

One shouldn’t come away with too rosy a picture, especially in those countries where homosexuality treated as criminal.

It would be extremely unpleasant to be arrested for homosexuality in those places where it is illegal. Egypt tends to sentence men (I know of no women being arrested for homosexuality in Egypt; foreigners/tourists are usually released and sent home) to several years hard labor. But in other parts of the Middle East the principle debate amongst legal scholars is over whether homosexuals should be stoned or flogged. Gay men have been stoned to death in Iran (of course, Iran hands out the death penalty quite freely, as we have seen even more during the recent turmoil). Egypt operates on the principle that it is illegal, obviously, but that there is no prescribed punishment for it and thus the state may use its discretion. It is worth keeping in mind that zina is usually punished quite severely in these places, as well.

Have you ever seriously explored the roots of your religion? Please do not misunderstand me I am just honestly inquiring if you ever had taken an unbiased look at Islam and an unbiased look at authentic Roman Catholicism. There are a lot of things we hold in common.

I agree. There is much that Islam and Catholicism share in terms of their understanding of God, the importance of prayer, cycles of fast and feast, etc. Catholicism also has a very rich intellectual tradition that I admire a great deal.

A bit off topic, but here are some things Moslems have in common with Catholics:

The Qur’an has many passages concerning the Blessed Virgin. First, it believes in her Immaculate Conception and in her Virgin Birth. The third chapter of the Qur’an places the history of Mary’s family in a genealogy that goes back through Abraham, Noah, and Adam.

The Qur’an describe the old age and the definite sterility of Anne, the mother of Mary. When, however, Anne conceives, the mother of Mary is made to say in the Qur’an: “O Lord, I vow and I consecrate to you what is already within me. Accept it from me.”

When Mary is born, her mother, Anne, says: “And I consecrate her with all of her posterity under thy protection, O Lord against Satan!”

The Qur’an has also verses on the Annunciation, Visitation, and nativity. Angels are pictured as accompanying the Blessed Mother and saying, “O Mary, God has chosen you and purified you, and elected you above all the women of the earth.”

In the nineteenth chapter of the Koran, there are forty-one verses on Jesus and Mary. There is such a strong defense of the virginity of Mary here that the Qur’an, in the fourth book, attributes the condemnation of the Jews to their monstrous calumny against the Virgin Mary.

Mary, then, is for the Moslems the true ‘Sayyida, or Lady. The only possible serious rival to her in their creed would be Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed himself. Mohammed wrote: “Thou shalt be the most blessed of all the women in Paradise, after Mary.”

In a variant of the text, Fatima is made to say, “I surpass all the women, except Mary.”

Very telling, in light of the relatively minor role some Protestant groups give Mary in the life of Jesus.

Okay, sorry for going off tangent.

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