gay priests


#1

I don’t understand why a gay person can’t become a priest. If he is a very spiritual person and would be chaste and celibate if he were to be ordained, then why not? If denied to the priesthood, he would be forced to live the rest of his life single anyway, as he cannot get married.


#2

IMHO I think it has to do with why this man identifies himself as “gay”. I do not run around telling everyone I am a heterosexual. Yes, it is part of my life but it is not my whole life. Sexuality is a part of our life but to have that as the defining aspect of our life is disordered.

No one should ever call themselves a “gay” priest just as no one should ever call themselves a “heterosexual” priest.

I believe the current guidelines state that a man who suffers from same-sex-attraction (SSA) is chaste for a number of years that he can be considered for the priesthood.

One of the arguments against allowing them to be ordained, though, is that they are really giving nothing up when they are ordained.

Being celibate means that one will never marry.

Being chaste means that we live according to our station in life, for a single person that means no sex.

So all single men are called to be chaste no matter what their sexual orientation is and the Catholic Church says that marriage can only happen between a man and a woman, a man who suffers from SSA can never get married then his celibacy is not the same sacrifice of a heterosexual male.

All they are giving up is something that they shouldn’t be doing anyways.


#3

It’s like you read my mind.

One of the arguments against allowing them to be ordained, though, is that they are really giving nothing up when they are ordained. . . . . .

So all single men are called to be chaste no matter what their sexual orientation is and the Catholic Church says that marriage can only happen between a man and a woman, a man who suffers from SSA can never get married then his celibacy is not the same sacrifice of a heterosexual male.

A man willing to giving up a life of homo or hetero sin is good enough for me. I really don’t see how stating one situation is more of a sacrifice than the other helps anything. Using that logic, a boy who wanted to be a priest since childhood gives up nothing either.

I once read a stat that stated that between 25-80% (a weird stat, I know) of priests are gay (or have SSA). If this stat is correct, the priest shortage would be in a more dire state than it is now.


#4

Thank You. One of the most insightful messages I have read on these forums.

It seems that nowadays Priests with same-sex attractions are denied because of the whole sex-scandal thing. As most of these cases dealt with homosexuality, the Church is trying to avoid the multi-billion dollar lawsuits. I know that the Church has always been against homosexuals being ordained, but it seems to be more prevalent.

If a Priest has SSA, couldn’t he just go through ordination without telling anyone, as long as no impure thoughts arise?


#5

I would see a good priest with SSA as a beautiful example of one shouldering their cross.


#6

Regardless of a man’s sexual preference, he is going to lust in some form. So priests will be most under-fire by Satan. with that being said, for a priest to practice celibacy is a test, committment, and a struggle for the service and Glory of God. It’s the temptation that the toughest part.

‘Gay’ is more of a radical political term and not a sexual orientation. I want my priest to be True to Christ’s Church yet strong enough tobe committed to the parish and their spiritual needs.


#7

In my opinion the “he’s not sacrificing anything good” argument is a terrible argument.

The essence of the priesthood is not to give something up. Perhaps that argument could be made for religious life, but celibacy is NOT the essence of the priesthood. Eastern Rite priests get married. The promise of celibacy came later in history.

Saying a gay man shouldnt be a priest because he is not giving something that would otherwise be allowed makes no sense as “giving something up” is not the nature of the priesthood. Priest’s, strictly speaking, don’t have to (like married eastern rite priests). Religious life, maybe (though they still would be giving up private property). But the priesthood, no, it’s a bad argument.


#8

The only problem I can really foresee is depending on the “depth” and level of SSA that a man faces, they may not be able to personify the true masculinity that a person needs to be a priest. I think the priest needs to be a masculine figure that personifies what it truly is to be a man of Chirst. Depending on the person, they may not be able to exemplify this to the extent it needs to be. Thus, I think this needs to be addressed very, very carefully on a person to person basis. This is certainly something that cannot be taken lightly.

Of course, I think if they are identifying themselves as “gay” then this already provides a huge identity crisis in that they have already participated (at least partially) into joining the “gay culture”. Any person who identifies themselves as gay has many things they need to work out before they even look at the priesthood.

Finally, I have a problem with someone who would keep silent on this throughout the process of becoming a priest. Someone who is becoming a priest should not go about doing so by using deception. On the contrary, they need to be completely honest with the vocations director (or whomever) about the struggle they face.


#9

I believe the current guidelines state that a man who suffers from same-sex-attraction (SSA) is chaste for a number of years that he can be considered for the priesthood.

I believe you are right about this policy. This is the exact same policy taken by Pope St. Leo IX during a similarly (but more widespread) scandalous period. St. Peter Damien wrote a book (City of Gomorrah) outlining all the problems and calling for very, very strict measures. He submitted it to St. Leo IX and the Pope praised the work, but rejected the strictiest measures that were proposed and instead opted for more compassionate ones (of course, St. Peter Damien humbly accepted them.)


#10

I wonder how hard it would be for a man w/ SSA to spend years in an all male seminary and live in a rectory w/ other men. —KCT


#11

This stat has to be wrong or at best it is nonsense as there is a margin of error of 55% in it. A study with a margin of error of ±5% is thought to be a little on the large side.

Its not my argument but I do see some merit in it.

The essence of the priesthood is not to give something up. Perhaps that argument could be made for religious life, but celibacy is NOT the essence of the priesthood. Eastern Rite priests get married. The promise of celibacy came later in history.

Correct, the essence of the priesthood is not to give something up but part of the essence of the priesthood (and religious life) is sacrifice.

And you are partly incorrect. Only the secular priests in the Eastern Churches may be ordained after they are married (once ordained no priest may marry). Religious priests have always been celibates.

Saying a gay man shouldnt be a priest because he is not giving something that would otherwise be allowed makes no sense as “giving something up” is not the nature of the priesthood. Priest’s, strictly speaking, don’t have to (like married eastern rite priests). Religious life, maybe (though they still would be giving up private property). But the priesthood, no, it’s a bad argument.

Again, I think it does have merit, especially in the Latin Church where celibacy is a requirement of all priests, secular and religious.

There are also many Eastern secular priests who chose celibacy.

Again, “giving something up” is not the nature of the priesthood but sacrifice is.


#12

Its only my opinion but I personally don’t believe that a man who identifies himself as gay should be permitted to enter the priesthood. These men are to serve as shepards to the masses and thus one who has embraced or failed to conquer the corruption of a “ssa” is in my view hardly worthy of such a task.


#13

I think this would be very hard to do with the psychological testing that is required today.

Not only that, in the case of a religious there are a couple (or more) years of formation before one enters the theologate, for a secular there is the years in the seminary and the pastoral year (which more dioceses are using nowadays).


#14

I don’t imagine it’d be hard. I have no doubt a gay man can be among other men without uncontrollable feelings of lust. Just like a straight guy can go to a convent and not try to do unfortunate things with the nuns…


#15

I realize this is extremely “politically incorrect”, and psychologists would deny it now, since pressure from homosexuals on the psychological community has caused homosexuality to be removed as a psychologicial disorder from the DSM.

However, since JPII said that homosexuality is “fundamentally disordered”, I don’t feel too alone on the receiving end of the firing range.

Would we be saying that psychopathic men should be priests, so long as they restrain their urges to, say, shoot people at random from rooftops or become serial killers? No, we would say the Church ought not to take a chance with something like that. Are homosexuals in as good control of their sexual urges as are heterosexuals? (understanding, of course that some heterosexuals are not) The statistics don’t seem to bear it out, since homosexuals typically have vastly more sexual partners than do heterosexuals, and engage in riskier behavior. Also, the majority of homosexual males have, at some time in their adult lives, had sexual contact with underage males; something that is not true of heterosexuals. There is just something wrong with that picture. Besides being high risk behavior, it is predatory. In addition, a majority of homosexual abusers of the young have, themselves, been sexually abused by homosexuals while young; something, again, that is not true of heterosexuals. Some studies, at least, say that the incidence of homosexuality among priests is little different than it is in the society at large. Yet the overwhelming majority of the abuse cases are by homosexual priests against adolescent males and young men, not by heterosexual priests against females of any age. It is generally acknowledged that pedophiles cannot be “cured”. Well, but most of the priest abuse cases were not cases of pedophilia. Most of the abusers, did it again and again; sometimes after “treatment”. So is homosexual predation on adolescent males and young men equally “incurable”. The statistics strongly suggest it. Since this society, and particularly the psychology world has, in effect, forbidden itself from studying homosexuality in any meaningful way, to try to get to answers to things like that, we’re just left to consider the differences in things homosexuals and heterosexuals seem to manifest, based on what little is known about homosexual behavior.

Knowing what some studies have shown, I would personally not allow a young grandson of mine to be alone in the company of anyone I knew to be homosexual, or suspected of being homosexual, no matter what. Absolutely no matter what. I do not owe that much to the politics of gender, nor does my grandson. Nor does the Church.


#16

Could you get me the JPII material you base your thoughts on and the studies that show all of the claims you make?


#17

Wouldn’t be that hard for me. I’ve been residing with men my whole life, went to an all-boys high shcool and have never once acted out my ssa.


#18

I believe the vast majority of homosexual males simply don’t tell anyone and live a quiet single celibate life. Not all homosexuals are potential pedophiles, just as not all mentally ill are potential criminals. I do feel sorry fro your point of view but it is not factual.


#19

What on earth makes you think most homosexual males live a celibate life? Statistics show that most don’t, though I suppose many homosexual might by lying to those who do the studies.

I think it would be enlightening to read the findings of the John Jay studies, and I encourage you to do so.

But the real point here is this. Against the background of the “priest abuse scandals”, virtually all of the perpetrators of which were homosexual (read the study) how willing should you or I be to expose your son, mine or someone else’s to the potential danger just because you don’t KNOW that a particular homosexual priest will remain resistant to a temptation that clearly seems stronger with homosexuals than with heterosexuals. I don’t think any of us has the right to risk sacrificing young people for the sake of politically correct notions that have absolutely no objective underpinning.


#20

I suggest Fr. Groeschel’s “The Courage To Be Chaste” as reading material. He has worked extensively in this area and states the same thing I do. Many, if not most, Homosexual persons choose not to marry and live single celibate lives. To assume that the voices of the militant gay agenda represent the lives of all homosexuals would be the same mistake as saying NOW represents all women.


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