Gays angry Knights of the Old Republic has no same sex relations

mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/news/read/21640/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-No-Same-Sex-Relationships-.html

Am I the only one face palming as im laughing my butt off? Its an MMO, why are they so annoyed there are no gay npc's when they are playing a game with thousands of other people online?

[quote="Laughing_Crow, post:1, topic:253441"]
mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/news/read/21640/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-No-Same-Sex-Relationships-.html

Am I the only one face palming as im laughing my butt off? Its an MMO, why are they so annoyed there are no gay npc's when they are playing a game with thousands of other people online?

[/quote]

People need to spend more time on CAFs and less on MMOs.

Wow, what an insult to the dignity of chaste, celibate homosexuals. These people seriously need to be quiet. If they're so concerned about it, why don't they just go off and commit impurities with others themselves? It seems to be the logical solution. :p Besides, who plays a Star Wars game for romance?? You play it so you can lop enemies' heads off with a lightsaber and be an epic hero to the galaxy.

Trust me, you're not alone Crow. Not alone at all.

Having a romantic venture in an MMO is cute and all but that's not the end-all of the whole experience. If these people want virtual relationships, tell 'em to play a sim-dating game. :rolleyes:

[quote="joshrp, post:2, topic:253441"]
People need to spend more time on CAFs and less on MMOs.

[/quote]

Actually there's a type of whackiness and fun that you can only find in MMOs that is impossible with CAF and vice-versa.

Some of this may have something to do with the fact the Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2 both had same sex romances. Although the romance option in the first game was unofficial and more hinted at than complete. The second game had explicit fully developed same sex romances. But these games were aimed at a different audience and market and even then only the hardcore players would have explored every romance option.

Really? I know that Jade Empire did, but I didn’t know about one in KotOR 2.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

A post up on a popular board I go to summed up this whole thing greatly

“All this political correctness that is being forced into video games has to stop. Did Doom have a fully fleshed out romance in it? No, because people wanted to blast demons/aliens to hell with big guns. Keep the politics, religious and cultural ‘equality’ out of video games so we can start having fun again”.

Eh, people got up in arms about Mass Effect 1 & 2 not having a male homosexual relationship option. If you have a good story and good gameplay, why complain? If it's about relateability, how many of us can actually empathize with a Jedi or a space marine? I think it's mostly about filling out a diversity checklist, which seems so important in media today. (I'm looking at you, 'Glee')

[quote="CarbonCrux, post:8, topic:253441"]
Eh, people got up in arms about Mass Effect 1 & 2 not having a male homosexual relationship option. If you have a good story and good gameplay, why complain? If it's about relateability, how many of us can actually empathize with a Jedi or a space marine? I think it's mostly about filling out a diversity checklist, which seems so important in media today. (I'm looking at you, 'Glee')

[/quote]

If they made a romance for a Space Marine im pretty sure The Emperor himself would get off his Golden Throne and strike the worm down :D

Dragon Age is a game which contains lengthy romances of both a homo and heterosexual type. Which I was honestly surprised by as it's a console game and although lesbian romances are reasonably common romances between guys are much less so in games. Mainly because I imagine many manufacturers feel it would be the kiss of doom as gaming is still (despite more girls becoming involved in recent years) the province of young males. A number of the characters are implied to be bisexual as well at points in dialogue.

I think it's because BioWare is known for including same-sex relationships in games. I think gamers have been spoiled by Dragon Age 2, not only does it have same-sex relationships, but one of the characters actually initiates a relationship with the player (you do, as always, have the option to refuse ANY relationship). When someone complained that the team wasn't doing enough to accommodate "the Straight Male Gamer", David Gaider (the lead writer for Dragon Age) basically told him to "get over it".

You can read his response here: cognitivedissonance.tumblr.com/post/4093204723/biowares-david-gaider-responds-to-straight-male

That said, I won't be playing the Old Republic because I'm too broke to afford a monthly fee and my wishlist is already full, not because there will or won't be a romance option. I'll just go play DA 2 again.

I haven't tried DA2 yet. Is it any good. I liked the first one due to the old school feel evoking games like Baldur's Gate etc. I'm a bit irked at the fact the ability to create your own protagonist has been removed from the second one apparently.

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:12, topic:253441"]
I haven't tried DA2 yet. Is it any good. I liked the first one due to the old school feel evoking games like Baldur's Gate etc. I'm a bit irked at the fact the ability to create your own protagonist has been removed from the second one apparently.

[/quote]

I think DA 2 has divided a lot of fans because it's less of an epic save-the-world quest and instead it's something more personal. The focus is on Hawke and the characters s/he interacts with, of course, if you don't like the supporting cast, then the story falls flat on its face. When I first started the game, I was like: "What is this I don't even" because it's not like DA: O, but it kept growing on me, so that by the end of the game I actually cared about what was going on around my character.

In terms of whether it's more "old school", I'd say no, but it's still a great game.

Regarding character creation, you can still customize your character (I made my male rogue into a white-haired pretty boy), but their surname will always be "Hawke" so that characters can address you in game.

Ah so it's a bit like Mass Effect where you are alway Commander Shepherd but you can personalise your particular Shepherd to be male, female etc. etc. I think they would have been better to either stick with that approach from game one onwards or stick with the approach taken in the first game throught the series as Dragon Age is supposed to be a trilogy like Mass Effect.

I'm currently still working my way through Fallout:New Vegas which is a great game despite initially having an insane number of bugs, which thankfully have been some what cleaned up now via patches.

This is basically further proof of the attempted (and admittedly mostly succesful) secularization of EVERYTHING in the world. Pathetic. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[quote="GloriousOrder, post:3, topic:253441"]
Wow, what an insult to the dignity of chaste, celibate homosexuals. These people seriously need to be quiet. If they're so concerned about it, why don't they just go off and commit impurities with others themselves? It seems to be the logical solution. :p Besides, who plays a Star Wars game for romance?? You play it so you can lop enemies' heads off with a lightsaber and be an epic hero to the galaxy.

[/quote]

Exactly this, especially the first part.

The only romance I've enjoyed in a Bioware game was Morrigan from DA:O because she is the only character who has her own agenda. She has her own goals and mission that just happens to involve the Warden, she didnt join because she wanted to help the Warden.

(Though I will say runner up is Jade Empires romance because you could actually change the persons alignment ie turning the shy and self doubting Dawn Star into a confident and downright evil girl)

Im personally getting sick of romance in games, because it isnt 'romance'. As I said, Morrigan was a good romance partner because she had her own goals, beliefs and ideas and didnt care if people disagreed with her. She voiced her opinion and let people take it for what its worth. All these 'romance' options lately are, as it doesnt add anything to the game, at the end of the day you still beat the bad guys, just with a gal (or guy) at your side. Id love to see a game where a different ending opens up if your in a romance, and your forced to chose between saving a town or saving your love. Or how about a lover who ends up turning against you because your about to attack her country and the rulers of said country? Id like romance options that dont just go along with you because they like you, id like romance options to be their own person. Its why I liked Sten so much, he wasnt a romance option but he was possibly the most intresting character. He didnt just follow the Warden, he questioned the Warden, at one poitn even challenging the Warden. He had a different religion and different culture and wasnt a character who went 'oh wow, your culture and religion is right, mine is wrong. I see that now'. Nope he stood by his beliefs and ideals.

I wouldnt object to romance options, gay or straight if they did it RIGHT. Not just 'he is gay because...we say so', how bout an actual reason why he is gay, how about a back story that doesnt involve 'daddy issues' (seriously, look at Mass Effect 2, every damn character had daddy issues). How about a gay character who has an opinion opposite of that of the main character?

[quote="Laughing_Crow, post:17, topic:253441"]

I wouldnt object to romance options, gay or straight if they did it RIGHT. Not just 'he is gay because...we say so', how bout an actual reason why he is gay, how about a back story that doesnt involve 'daddy issues' (seriously, look at Mass Effect 2, every damn character had daddy issues). How about a gay character who has an opinion opposite of that of the main character?

[/quote]

I think the problem is that games, like movies, often have a limited amount of space with which to include a romance. If the average RPG is, say, 40 hours, and most of that is the main quest, you still have side quests to do, and much of the space on the disk is taken up by the nuts and bolts of the game (environments, equipment stats, that sort of thing). There simply isn't enough time to fully develop a romance.

That said, this is another reason I like Dragon Age 2. The developers did take a sense of time into account (to say more would be spoiling it). They also made it possible for characters to disagree with you and still end up being romantically involved. Depending on your choices, you may have to choose between a romance (and it can be a gay romance) and your principles. As a mage, for instance, there are party members who have good reasons for not warming up to mages. I felt very warm and fuzzy when one anti-mage character, during the endgame, said to the main antagonist: "I'm sorry, but I belong with my friend" because I worked so hard to win them over despite our differences in opinion.

As for having a "reason for being gay". Should a straight character have a reason for being straight? They just are, it isn't a choice, and to the best of my knowledge, none of the romance options have "daddy issues" in DA 2. They have issues regarding being accepted by their community, past traumatic experiences, or simply a decision they made in the past coming back to haunt them. In fact, if you really want a character with familial drama, look no further than the main character hirself!

I'm just reminded of the description, by Jerry "Tycho" Holkins, who writes the webcomic Penny Arcade, of a similar controversy over the first Mass Effect having lesbians but not gays:

Some of the community reaction is dedicated to demanding gay parity for the male persuasion of this sexual equation, lengthy treatises by oiled men who crave starborne sodomy.

He then goes on to say the rest of the discussion is "boring, terrestrial, and (quite frankly) myopic"...and launches into a disturbing (and strictly tongue-in-cheek) soliluquy about how the game should have the option of sex with aliens.

The comic strip for that day has Tycho doing something similar, only he says it to Michael "Gabe" Krahulik, the guy who draws the strip, and you see Gabe's look of growing horror and disgust, over lines like "Imagine a Chik'thar hive maiden scuttling out of her mottled carapace, her inviting, translucent thorax heaving with ripe larvae".

I always quote another line from that strip, though, when people are squawking about some new sci-fi sexual tokenism, or the lack thereof:

(whatever) indeed. Indeed, sir. A universe of possibilities, and you're fixated on the local flavor.

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