Geert Wilders to enter Dutch government after support for anti-Islamic party triples [Islam and The Netherlands]

Might be of some interest to people here - the PVV (the anti-Islam, ban the Qu'ran etc, etc Party) did rather well in the Dutch elections.

:thumbsup:

fascism didnt die in Europe,its just too small to be able to controll anything

i just watched an older interview with him,what can i say...this guy is sick

[quote="bosnian_muslim, post:4, topic:201537"]
i just watched an older interview with him,what can i say...this guy is sick

[/quote]

The problem is that he's saying what a lot of people are feeling - Islamophobia is allowing the re-surfacing of a politics that, apart from crank groups, has been dormant in Western Europe for the past 60-70 years and has the political advantage of people not having to consider themselves as racist and just feel themselves as defenders of 'civilization' or whatever.

The question is what should be the response of our Muslim minorities to this? The 'permanently angry politics' that we've seen so much of would seem to be a good way of feeding the Geert Wilders of the European world.

[quote="Kaninchen, post:5, topic:201537"]
The problem is that he's saying what a lot of people are feeling - Islamophobia is allowing the re-surfacing of a politics that, apart from crank groups, has been dormant in Western Europe for the past 60-70 years and has the political advantage of people not having to consider themselves as racist and just feel themselves as defenders of 'civilization' or whatever.

The question is what should be the response of our Muslim minorities to this? The 'permanently angry politics' that we've seen so much of would seem to be a good way of feeding the Geert Wilders of the European world.

[/quote]

What we are talking about is not a normal form of rascism or prejudice that usually exist in all societies..islamophobia is a trend that has grown and grown since 2001,and it looks to me like it will continue to grow.The only thing we can do is to have more muslims speaking out in media so that an average person gets to know that not all muslims are "terrorists" and "enemies of country":shrug:

Some say this is because of the crisis in Europe,maybe so..but i also think its because of the historical relations between the islamic and christian world.

[quote="bosnian_muslim, post:6, topic:201537"]
Its all about the current crisis in Europe..if that continues then theese kind of ideas will continue to grow.Its a natural thing for all human beeings,when something goes wrong in society then find someone to blame it at,,,its usually the most visible minority that becomes the victim.What we are talking about is not a normal form of rascism or prejudice that usually exist in all societies..islamophobia is a trend that has grown and grown since 2001,and it looks to me like it will continue to grow.The only thing we can do is to have more muslims speaking out in media so that an average person gets to know that not all muslims are "terrorists" and "enemies of country":shrug:

[/quote]

On the other hand, perhaps it might be better if the Muslim community could arrange for a little less 'speaking out' from the 'permanently angry'! ;)

I can't help but think that 'the ball is in the Muslim court' on this because a lot of the 'visible' does seem to be the playing out, in the Muslim communities, of the politics of Pakistan, Somalia etc, etc with a screen of 'Islamic' justification as a cover.

Meanwhile, the majority of Muslims are just trying to get on with their lives.

[quote="Kaninchen, post:7, topic:201537"]

Meanwhile, the majority of Muslims are just trying to get on with their lives.

[/quote]

That may well be, but what I see is many Muslims refusing to assimilate to their adopted countries. The result isolation, lack of education, lack of jobs. They become marginalized and the cycle continues.

My parents were European. When we moved to the States, we kept our language and traditions in our home, but we also learned to speak English and went to American schools.

In the USA today, we have two languages. When telephoning we must "press 1 for English" and "2 for(Spanish)." The self checkouts at the supermarket, the bank ATM's are all in both languages. The Mexicans don't need to learn English. So, they live in their ghettos. A Bosnian friend of mine went to Florida for vacation and needed some suntan lotion. He couldn't find anybody who spoke English in the Walgreen's drugstore (national chain). This keeps the Mexicans in low-paying jobs. Most hotel workers and landscaping employees are Mexicans. Unfortunately, the children are not becoming assimilated either due to the fact they go to inner-city schools and compete with inner-city African-Americans and gangs, who are like-was marginalized. So now you've got the Mexican and the African- American gangs competing with each other. There isn't a week that goes by there isn't a gang shooting, or gang initiation shooting.

It's a vicious cycle, that in my opinion, can only be broken by "When in Rome."

[quote="qui_est_ce, post:8, topic:201537"]
That may well be, but what I see is many Muslims refusing to assimilate to their adopted countries. The result isolation, lack of education, lack of jobs. They become marginalized and the cycle continues.

My parents were European. When we moved to the States, we kept our language and traditions in our home, but we also learned to speak English and went to American schools.

In the USA today, we have two languages. When telephoning we must "press 1 for English" and "2 for(Spanish)." The self checkouts at the supermarket, the bank ATM's are all in both languages. The Mexicans don't need to learn English. So, they live in their ghettos. A Bosnian friend of mine went to Florida for vacation and needed some suntan lotion. He couldn't find anybody who spoke English in the Walgreen's drugstore (national chain). This keeps the Mexicans in low-paying jobs. Most hotel workers and landscaping employees are Mexicans. Unfortunately, the children are not becoming assimilated either due to the fact they go to inner-city schools and compete with inner-city African-Americans and gangs, who are like-was marginalized. So now you've got the Mexican and the African- American gangs competing with each other. There isn't a week that goes by there isn't a gang shooting, or gang initiation shooting.

It's a vicious cycle, that in my opinion, can only be broken by "When in Rome."

[/quote]

Its not a muslim thing,its cultural difference.There are many christian immigrants from Iraq in West and they are not doing much better.Then there is also rascism from westerners,its very hard for some people to get a job if their name is Muhamed,Ibrahim.

In the US its different,but Europe is very homogenous and as a non-westerner its hard to become a part of the society,i mean even a serb,russian,polish is hardly accepted in western Europe.,,i see more iranian well adopted,well educated people here then i see lets say poles,russians.So its not a muslim thing

[quote="Kaninchen, post:7, topic:201537"]
On the other hand, perhaps it might be better if the Muslim community could arrange for a little less 'speaking out' from the 'permanently angry'! ;)

I can't help but think that 'the ball is in the Muslim court' on this because a lot of the 'visible' does seem to be the playing out, in the Muslim communities, of the politics of Pakistan, Somalia etc, etc with a screen of 'Islamic' justification as a cover.

Meanwhile, the majority of Muslims are just trying to get on with their lives.

[/quote]

Its not good to keep quiet either.Then you just let people like Wilders go on with their lies(comparing the Koran with Mein Kampf,taking quotes from the Koran out of context)

Muslim today talk much about the fact that we need to make a difference between culture and religion.A muslim from Iraq is a lot closer to an iraqi christian then a muslim from lets say Russia.Islam as religion is very old in Europe,it doesnt come with the immigrants...what the europeans have a problem with is the new culture that they are facing,not the religion by itself.European islam has existed in Spain,Russia,the Balkans for centuries.Islam is universal and workes in every society,,it worked perfect in Spain,,the dark ages started first after the muslims lost Spain(i know i will be attacked now but thats fact:cool:)

[quote="qui_est_ce, post:8, topic:201537"]
That may well be, but what I see is many Muslims refusing to assimilate to their adopted countries. The result isolation, lack of education, lack of jobs. They become marginalized and the cycle continues.

[/quote]

Of course, there's a element of truth to all that but surveys show remarkable levels of loyalty to their new countries and localities - approaching 90% in the UK, for example.

It's a vicious cycle, that in my opinion, can only be broken by "When in Rome."

Except, when in Rome, you'd say: "paese che vai usanza che trovi." :)

[quote="bosnian_muslim, post:10, topic:201537"]
Its not good to keep quiet either.Then you just let people like Wilders go on with their lies(comparing the Koran with Mein Kampf,taking quotes from the Koran out of context)

[/quote]

Trouble is, a lot of the language they use feeds directly into Islamophobe propaganda.

Muslim today talk much about the fact that we need to make a difference between culture and religion.A muslim from Iraq is a lot closer to an iraqi christian then a muslim from lets say Russia.Islam as religion is very old in Europe,it doesnt come with the immigrants...what the europeans have a problem with is the new culture that they are facing,not the religion by itself.European islam has existed in Spain,Russia,the Balkans for centuries.Islam is universal and workes in every society,,it worked perfect in Spain,,the dark ages started first after the muslims lost Spain(i know i will be attacked now but thats fact:cool:)

Eventually, perhaps a new 'European Islam' will emerge (possibly including a lot of shopping - I'm only partly joking, there was a survey fairly recently of attitudes of young Muslim women in the UK which showed that their preoccupations were education, starting businesses and, yes, they were faithful Muslims but they also liked shopping quite a lot) from the melting pot.

[quote="bosnian_muslim, post:10, topic:201537"]
A muslim from Iraq is a lot closer to an iraqi christian then a muslim from lets say Russia.

[/quote]

Who is persecuting the Christians in Iraq?

Who killed Fr. Ragheed Ganni?

Why are Chaldean Catholics fleeing Iraq?

[quote="qui_est_ce, post:13, topic:201537"]
Who is persecuting the Christians in Iraq?

Who killed Fr. Ragheed Ganni?

Why are Chaldean Catholics fleeing Iraq?

[/quote]

It's those stupid evil imperialist Westerners, and the filthy Yahud, don't you know? It's all a Western/Zionist conspiracy to portray the poor innocent muslims as bad guys, when all every single one of them want is to be allowed to have parallel communities, special rules, etc. And along come these evil Westerners and talk about protecting their culture and societies. Don't they know that the only GOOD cultures, and only GOOD society are those of islam?
:rolleyes:

[quote="Kaninchen, post:11, topic:201537"]
Of course, there's a element of truth to all that but surveys show remarkable levels of loyalty to their new countries and localities - approaching 90% in the UK, for example.

[/quote]

Could it be because Sharia Law is now legally binding in the UK?

[quote="qui_est_ce, post:8, topic:201537"]
That may well be, but what I see is many Muslims refusing to assimilate to their adopted countries. The result isolation, lack of education, lack of jobs. They become marginalized and the cycle continues.

My parents were European. When we moved to the States, we kept our language and traditions in our home, but we also learned to speak English and went to American schools.

In the USA today, we have two languages. When telephoning we must "press 1 for English" and "2 for(Spanish)." The self checkouts at the supermarket, the bank ATM's are all in both languages. The Mexicans don't need to learn English. So, they live in their ghettos. A Bosnian friend of mine went to Florida for vacation and needed some suntan lotion. He couldn't find anybody who spoke English in the Walgreen's drugstore (national chain). This keeps the Mexicans in low-paying jobs. Most hotel workers and landscaping employees are Mexicans. Unfortunately, the children are not becoming assimilated either due to the fact they go to inner-city schools and compete with inner-city African-Americans and gangs, who are like-was marginalized. So now you've got the Mexican and the African- American gangs competing with each other. There isn't a week that goes by there isn't a gang shooting, or gang initiation shooting.

It's a vicious cycle, that in my opinion, can only be broken by "When in Rome."

[/quote]

I'll finish it, for anyone (here) who may not know the saying, "When in Rome-do as the Romans do."

Brilliant.

Your post hits the nail on the head-in a nutshell (it's all there).

Brilliant post.

Bravo!

God Bless.
+Jesus, I Trust In You.
Love, Dawn

[quote="bosnian_muslim, post:9, topic:201537"]
Its not a muslim thing,its cultural difference.There are many christian immigrants from Iraq in West and they are not doing much better.Then there is also rascism from westerners,its very hard for some people to get a job if their name is Muhamed,Ibrahim.

[/quote]

Well, then, I suppose yelling "Allah Akba" before blowing yourself up and taking innocent civilians to their graves along with you, must be a "cultural" thing.

Issuing fatwas against people drawing cartoons of Mohammed is "cultural."

[quote="qui_est_ce, post:15, topic:201537"]
Could it be because Sharia Law is now legally binding in the UK?

[/quote]

Oh dear, not just nonsense but, as Margaret Thatcher used to say, 'nonsense on stilts'.

[quote="Kaninchen, post:18, topic:201537"]
Oh dear, not just nonsense but, as Margaret Thatcher used to say, 'nonsense on stilts'.

[/quote]

Times on Line

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

[quote="qui_est_ce, post:19, topic:201537"]
Times on Line

[/quote]

Oddly, of course, you ought to have mentioned that 'Torah' was also legally binding in the UK and Sport Law was legally binding in the UK, etc, etc, etc.

But you didn't because the headline 'Sport Law legally binding in the UK' doesn't quite have the same implication, does it?

Arbitration law applies where, under quite normal processes in UK Law, both parties to a civil dispute agree to go to arbitration (rather than fight it out in the normal court process). In the case of those Muslims who wish to have their civil quarrels arbitrated by their religious/legal authorities, they are now able to do so, just as Jews have for a very long time.

This is why the bald statement about Shariah is not just nonsense but nonsense on stilts. Good sloganeering, Americans getting excited about decapitations and hands being cut off, dhimmis etc but complete nonsense nevertheless.

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