Genesis 15:15, Genesis 25:8, and Genesis 25:17


#1

So my girlfriend and I, were reading the Bible to understand faith better (bare in mind that we come from 2 different religious backgrounds). SO we started from the very chapter. Were reading writting things down that we feel are important, and we come across Genesis 15:15, were God tells Abraham that he will go with his fathers in peace. Were reading the Bible in Spanish, so it is saying, that when Abraham dies he will be reunited with his ancestors.

On Genisis 25:8 it talks about how when Abraham died he went with his people. Genesis 25:17 its the same thing. When we read it in Spanish, it says that after his death he will meet with his ancestors in all 3 verses.

I told my girlfriend, that means that he died and his soul went to heaven with God. She's a Seventh Day Adventist, their belief is that when we die we just sleep un til God's second coming. So she interpreted it, that Abraham would be buried next to his anscestors. I told her that can't be possible because his forefathers, they all went different directions, theirs no way he can be next to his forefathers if ther all buried in different locations.

Some help and guidance to give her a response to this will be greatly appreciated.


#2

This is why it's dangerous to take the bible at face value and not use the voice and teachings of the catholic church that put the book together with its understandings of it in mind.

We believe that everyone is in a type of "holding" after death before Christ who were saved....heaven was not open to them as of yet. You are correct that we are more alive than ever when we die....that we are not "asleep" until our ressurection.

Evidence of this is when on mount tabor during the transfiguration ....Jesus is talking to men that have died!

Matthew 17 1-3: And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain apart. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light. And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him.

More evidence:

Matthew 22: 31-32: And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, `I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."

Hebrews 12:1:Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us

(**NOTE - Witnesses have to be alive in order to witness for us, to our Judge, Jesus Christ)

that should get you going. If you need more....let me know.

God bless!


#3

I actually did some research on this. I checked what the Jews had to say about it, I think I saw that in Deuteronomy as well as Isaiah I believe, speak of being reunited with their forefathers. We’re taking it step by step, since she’s a Protestant I’m trying to show her that everything that the church has, it’s based on the bible.


#4

Also reference to Revelation, where 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles are sitting on 24 thrones, and adoring God. Also look to another spot in Revelation where the martyrs are under the altar in Heaven, and ask Jesus when their blood will be avenged.

It’s hard to ask questions when you are asleep.


#5

You need to prove the teaching authority of the church......the pope.

If you get that through, everything will fall into place.


#6

[quote="chero23, post:3, topic:318094"]
I actually did some research on this. I checked what the Jews had to say about it, I think I saw that in Deuteronomy as well as Isaiah I believe, speak of being reunited with their forefathers. We're taking it step by step, since she's a Protestant I'm trying to show her that everything that the church has, it's based on the bible.

[/quote]

That is good, but its important to note that everything the Church has is NOT based on the Bible. There is support for tons of church teachings in the Bible, but its not what it is based on. It's the other way around...the Bible is based on the Church. The Church existed first, and put together the Bible for our benefit.

The Bible is holy, and inspired by God. It is all Truth, but it is not the foundation of faith. As Catholics, we believe that the Word of God is not primarily a book, but a person...Jesus Christ.


#7

[quote="chero23, post:1, topic:318094"]
I told my girlfriend, that means that he died and his soul went to heaven with God. She's a Seventh Day Adventist, their belief is that when we die we just sleep un til God's second coming. .

[/quote]

Matthew 17:1-5

1 After six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them; his face shone like the sun and his clothes became white as light.

And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, conversing with him.

Then Peter said to Jesus in reply, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents* here, one for you, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”

While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud cast a shadow over them,* then from the cloud came a voice that said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.”

Not asleep if they are chatting with Jesus.


#8

In addition, the story of the Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16 shows the souls of both men being conveyed immediately after death to hell. Neither is "sleeping."


#9

People did not go to heaven until Christ conquered death for us. The only three people in the Old Testament believed by some to have gone to heaven before Christ are Enoch, Elijah, and Moses.


#10

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