Genesis 9:20, need help understanding


#1

We have been doing Scott Hahn’s Salvation History. When he covers the part where Noah got drunk and Ham seen his Father in his drunkeness, Dr. Hahn says drunkeness means incest, yet Hahn says it was the son Ham who had incestuous relations with his Mother. Is Noah also guilty of incest, it is sorta confusing. :confused:
Thanks in advance,
Jeff W.


#2

[quote=jwilliams]We have been doing Scott Hahn’s Salvation History. When he covers the part where Noah got drunk and Ham seen his Father in his drunkeness, Dr. Hahn says drunkeness means incest, yet Hahn says it was the son Ham who had incestuous relations with his Mother. Is Noah also guilty of incest, it is sorta confusing. :confused:
Thanks in advance,
Jeff W.
[/quote]

In his nakedness. Not drunkeness. Does this make more sense now? (Something like “uncovered his father’s nakedness”).


#3

Thanks RobNY, I did mean to type nakedness and not drunkeness, that is what happens when you are trying to type and make supper at the same time. The question still stands, is Noah guilty of incest due to his “nakedness” which Dr. Hahn interpreted as incest. |
Thanks,
Jeff


#4

[quote=jwilliams]Thanks RobNY, I did mean to type nakedness and not drunkeness, that is what happens when you are trying to type and make supper at the same time. The question still stands, is Noah guilty of incest due to his “nakedness” which Dr. Hahn interpreted as incest. |
Thanks,
Jeff
[/quote]

Actually, Noah isn’t guilty of anything.

Ham is guilty of incest. From the website:

What’s going on in the story of Ham uncovering “his father’s nakedness” (see Genesis 9:22)? In Hebrew, this phrase is a figure of speech used to describe incest (Leviticus 20:17; 18:6-18. Note: In other places besides the story of Noah and Ham, The New American Bible translates this phrase as “to have intercourse with.” The Revised Standard Version in all cases keeps the more literal translation “uncover the nakedness of.” See RSV-Leviticus 20:17; 18:6-18).

To uncover the nakedness of your father is to commit incest with your mother. To state it bluntly, in all its brutality - while Noah was drunk, Ham slept with his mother. We don’t know what Ham was thinking. It could be that he wanted to seize power from his dad and this heinous act was his way of insulting Noah and showing his total disrespect (see similar episodes in Genesis 29:32; 35:22; 49:3-4; 2 Samuel 16:21-22).

But notice that Noah doesn’t curse Ham. He curses Canaan - the son born of this incestuous encounter. Why Canaan? It’s another hint in the text of what Ham’s crime was. As we’ll see later, Canaan will be the founding father of a nation that will be known for its abominable practice of maternal incest (see Leviticus 18:6-18; Exodus 23:23-24).


#5

RobNY, yes that clears it up. Should have known it would have been cleared up on www.salvationhistory.com
Jeff


#6

I like Hahn a lot, but I’ve posted on this theory before because the only problem I have with it is this: If to uncover Noah’s nakedness means that Ham had an incestual relationship with his mother to humiliate Noah … then how did his brothers, in the next verse, go in and “cover” his nakedness? If this wasn’t happening literally, but only a metaphor for incest, how did they go in and reverse the process??


#7

[quote=awfulthings9]I like Hahn a lot, but I’ve posted on this theory before because the only problem I have with it is this: If to uncover Noah’s nakedness means that Ham had an incestual relationship with his mother to humiliate Noah … then how did his brothers, in the next verse, go in and “cover” his nakedness? If this wasn’t happening literally, but only a metaphor for incest, how did they go in and reverse the process??
[/quote]

The first example wasn’t a metaphor, but rather, an idiom. The second example may be an example of more figurative language. However-- to ‘cover’ their father’s nakedness, it may merely be setting things right in a certain way. I don’t know.


#8

[quote=awfulthings9]I like Hahn a lot, but I’ve posted on this theory before because the only problem I have with it is this: If to uncover Noah’s nakedness means that Ham had an incestual relationship with his mother to humiliate Noah … then how did his brothers, in the next verse, go in and “cover” his nakedness? If this wasn’t happening literally, but only a metaphor for incest, how did they go in and reverse the process??
[/quote]

Here are some quotes from salvation history
To uncover the nakedness of your father is to commit incest with your mother. To state it bluntly, in all its brutality - while Noah was drunk, Ham slept with his mother.
Since there is no further mention of what Shem and Japheth did in covering Noah, it must not be important. Not to be aloof, but I have not come across anything else that would relate back to what Shem and Japheth did as to it being a relevant act or gesture. :cool:
Jeff


closed #9

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