Gentler

I understand that some muslim members have decided to stop posting on this website.
I urge all christians to stop insulting islam.
If you do not agree with islam, say so…and let it go.

Please do not resort to calling it names, and saying things like its rubbish and stuff like that.

Its hard enough to come here, to a forum full of Christians and try to explain and defend their faith.

As Christians anyhting less than being completely loving and generous is abandoning Christ.

If we know the Truth, why is it that we have to resort to name calling.

Say it and leave it.

Peace

[left]Dominus Iesus portions[/left]

In considering the values which these religions (NON-CHRISTIAN)witness to and offer humanity, with an open and positive approach, the Second Vatican Council’s Declaration on the relation of the Church to non-Christian religions states: “The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions. She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and teachings, which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men”.4 Continuing in this line of thought, the Church’s proclamation of Jesus Christ, “the way, the truth, and the life” (Jn 14:6), today also makes use of the practice of inter-religious dialogue. Such dialogue certainly does not replace, but rather accompanies the missio ad gentes, directed toward that “mystery of unity”, from which “it follows that all men and women who are saved share, though differently, in the same mystery of salvation in Jesus Christ through his Spirit”.5 Inter-religious dialogue, which is part of the Church’s evangelizing mission,6 requires an attitude of understanding and a relationship of mutual knowledge and reciprocal enrichment, in obedience to the truth and with respect for freedom.7

  1. The hypothesis of the inspired value of the sacred writings of other religions is also put forward. Certainly, it must be recognized that there are some elements in these texts which may be de facto instruments by which countless people throughout the centuries have been and still are able today to nourish and maintain their life-relationship with God. Thus, as noted above, the Second Vatican Council, in considering the customs, precepts, and teachings of the other religions, teaches that “although differing in many ways from her own teaching, these nevertheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men”.23

Nevertheless, God, who desires to call all peoples to himself in Christ and to communicate to them the fullness of his revelation and love, “does not fail to make himself present in many ways, not only to individuals, but also to entire peoples through their spiritual riches, of which their religions are the main and essential expression even when they contain ‘gaps, insufficiencies and errors’”.27 Therefore, the sacred books of other religions, which in actual fact direct and nourish the existence of their followers, receive from the mystery of Christ the elements of goodness and grace which they contain.

“Indeed, God ‘desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth’ (1 Tim 2:4); that is, God wills the salvation of everyone through the knowledge of the truth. Salvation is found in the truth. Those who obey the promptings of the Spirit of truth are already on the way of salvation. But the Church, to whom this truth has been entrusted, must go out to meet their desire, so as to bring them the truth. Because she believes in God’s universal plan of salvation, the Church must be missionary”.

[quote=hawk]I understand that some muslim members have decided to stop posting on this website.
I urge all christians to stop insulting islam.
If you do not agree with islam, say so…and let it go.

Please do not resort to calling it names, and saying things like its rubbish and stuff like that.

Its hard enough to come here, to a forum full of Christians and try to explain and defend their faith.

As Christians anyhting less than being completely loving and generous is abandoning Christ.

If we know the Truth, why is it that we have to resort to name calling.

Say it and leave it.

Peace
[/quote]

Dialogue works both ways, Hawk! In that case, Muslims who come to this website should stop insulting our Faith! I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but several Catholic posters on this site have left as well and I’m bowing out also!

What their purpose is in coming here, I have no idea, but I don’t think it’s because they want to learn anything about us. Maybe they’re hoping to make conversions!

I know that I have been harsh in some of my posts. Their answers may be more subtle but their hostility and contempt for what we believe is very apparent in every comment they make about our faith, while all the time they keep trying to impress us with the “superiority” of Islam! They even try to judge our faith by their own standards! Enough!

It’s a complete waste of time trying to dialogue with people who deliberately misunderstand what we’re trying to say! Besides I don’t see why we have to “justify” our beliefs to anyone!

Their attacks have not in any way weakened my faith, on the contrary, they’ve made me appreciate even more the wonderful treasure we have in our Church!

Vickie

[quote=Booklover]Dialogue works both ways, Hawk! In that case, Muslims who come to this website should stop insulting our Faith! I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but several Catholic posters on this site have left as well and I’m bowing out also!

[/quote]

You might find it hard to believe but they are not insulting your faith.
They are simply teaching what their faith teaches about our faith.

[quote=hawk]You might find it hard to believe but they are not insulting your faith.
They are simply teaching what their faith teaches about our faith.
[/quote]

May I ask why one faith would “teach” about another?

CCC has one paragraph on Islam, 841.

My reason for wanting to learn about other faiths and religions is that should I be challenged for the hope and faith that I have, I need to give an answer that is substantial and that they can understand. “Having God in my heart” isn’t going to be enough for some people. I find that my testimony is much stronger when I understand the system of beliefs of others.

One thing I have noticed on the Islam threads is that they use the Qu’ran to illustrate points of why they do something or believe something and why that is contradictory to what we believe. Likewise, we typically use the Bible and the CCC, and I have noticed that some users have access to the Qu’ran and can understand it enough to use it affectively in illustrating a point.

Let me point out, though, that it is approximately the equivalent of speaking louder to someone who speaks a different language. They may hear you better, but they don’t understand you any better unless they also speak your language.

Likewise, it is almost useless for a Christian to use the Bible to witness to someone who doesn’t believe in it. Similarly, it is almost useless for a Muslim to use the Qu’ran to witness to me when I don’t believe in it. (By “believe in,” I mean believe in its truth, not believe in its existence. Obviously, each exists) I’m not saying the books we know as truth should not be used, but I am saying both should be used to defend each side.

There are benefits to learning about other faiths and systems of belief. I thought that this thread would be more education than debate, but I was disappointed in that regard. It’s still been educational, but it’s been a rather hostile education by all sides of belief.

[quote=Akanke]Likewise, it is almost useless for a Christian to use the Bible to witness to someone who doesn’t believe in it. Similarly, it is almost useless for a Muslim to use the Qu’ran to witness to me when I don’t believe in it. (By “believe in,” I mean believe in its truth, not believe in its existence. Obviously, each exists) I’m not saying the books we know as truth should not be used, but I am saying both should be used to defend each side.
[/quote]

Thank you!!! I guess I’m not the only one that noticed this after all.

[quote=iamrefreshed]May I ask why one faith would “teach” about another?

CCC has one paragraph on Islam, 841.
[/quote]

Islam perhaps is the only faith, that does this.

But it does say that all other faiths are deviations from the Truth.

It regards Christianity and Judaism as less of a deviation, for some reason.

All faiths beyond these two are considered pagan, and completely intolerable

You might find it hard to believe but they are not insulting your faith.
They are simply teaching what their faith teaches about our faith.

That’s the hardest part for Christians to understand, I think. Islam does in fact teach very negative things about our faith, and not just by implication (“We are right so you must be wrong”). As we’ve seen from the Quran, there are blatant misrepresentations of Christian beliefs at the core of Islamic belief. It makes Christians defensive, thinking they’re being unduly attacked, when in fact the Muslims really are just presenting the core elements of their faith.

When a Muslim comes in and says “You worship Mary, and you’re wrong for doing it,” they aren’t basing that off of totally irrelevant, made up accusations like Protestants often do, but are deriving that belief from what they understand to be sacred and inerrant Scripture. To NOT believe those things would be to deny the Quran, and to cease being Muslim.

Keep in mind I’m not saying their views are correct; obviously they are mistaken. My point is that they are not coming to us out of the same kind of baseless prejudice we are used to from many Protestants.

peace guys

i have thought about leaving this forum many times too…its not because of the “attacks” those i’m personally used to. The most amazing thing is that the more people are willing to stoop to attack my faith, the more i am reminded of the hardships that Abraham and Moses and Jesus and Mohamed peace be upon them all had to undergo to relay the message that there is no being worthy of worship but God alone.

I thought of leaving b/c some people on this forum, without mentioning names, refuse to believe anything the Muslims say. Silly threads like “Allah causes death” and “a rape victim marrying her father in law” and others have truly shown much ignorance about the Islamic faith. Not to mention ofcourse the countless threads that deal with how islam is such a violent religion and its growing so fast b/c of this violence. Its amazing how things can be twisted.

at first, i came here to correct what i HAD thought was innocent ignorance of my faith. But after spending some time, the innocence left and all that remained was the ignorance. Blind ignorance is not something i want to waste my time with.

in any case, I will stay for a little while and then leave also inshAllah.

May God guide us all and may the actions of our entire lives be for His pleasure only. Ameen

[quote=exoflare]Thank you!!! I guess I’m not the only one that noticed this after all.
[/quote]

It is your actions that bear testament to your faith, yet Christians have lost this I am afraid.
Catholics in particular are disappointing.
This is because they have abandoned all concepts of God.
They go to mass, they come home and its forgotten.

Then they talk about witnessing from the Bible!!!

Live the Bible, that should be our testament.

Live in Christ, that will be the best testament you can give anyone.

Strive to be perfect, as our Father in heaven is perfect.

But look at our behaviour on this forum, how far short are we from the glory of God.

What example are we to muslims, let us make a decision to be more welcoming in the future.

In the spirit of Christ.

[quote=hawk]It is your actions that bear testament to your faith, yet Christians have lost this I am afraid.
Catholics in particular are disappointing.
This is because they have abandoned all concepts of God.
They go to mass, they come home and its forgotten.

Then they talk about witnessing from the Bible!!!

Live the Bible, that should be our testament.

Live in Christ, that will be the best testament you can give anyone.

Strive to be perfect, as our Father in heaven is perfect.

But look at our behaviour on this forum, how far short are we from the glory of God.

What example are we to muslims, let us make a decision to be more welcoming in the future.

In the spirit of Christ.
[/quote]

Amen!

[quote=hawk]I understand that some muslim members have decided to stop posting on this website.

I urge all christians to stop insulting islam.

If you do not agree with islam, say so…and let it go.

Please do not resort to calling it names, and saying things like its rubbish and stuff like that.

Its hard enough to come here, to a forum full of Christians and try to explain and defend their faith.

As Christians anyhting less than being completely loving and generous is abandoning Christ.

If we know the Truth, why is it that we have to resort to name calling.

Say it and leave it.

Peace
[/quote]

Hawk,

My compliments and thanks to you for the points you made above. I have been trying to give careful attention to this subforum, as well to NCR itself and the other 3 subforums within it, to assure that the kind of behavior about which you have remarked does not become the norm. My level of tolerance for intolerance is decidedly low.

No one, regardless of their faith, who wishes to post respectfully, civilly, and charitably here for purposes of discussion, education, dialogue, or even debate should ever feel unwelcome. If they do, then we as a community have failed them.

Joe Monahan

[quote=hawk]You might find it hard to believe but they are not insulting your faith.
They are simply teaching what their faith teaches about our faith.

[/quote]

This is why many Muslims, including myself, come to forums like this to do, just relate the islamic beliefs on various issues as well as to clarify the misconceptions clouding over Islam such as regarding terrorism, etc. Perhaps some have purposely come to insult and attack your faith, to which i say their way is not from the ettiquettes Islam teaches with regards to giving the message of Islam. When we relate our beliefs, as hawk said we do not intend to insult or attack your faith.

Islam perhaps is the only faith, that does this.

But it does say that all other faiths are deviations from the Truth.

It regards Christianity and Judaism as less of a deviation, for some reason.

All faiths beyond these two are considered pagan, and completely intolerable

That is also correct.

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