Girls "Practicing" on eachother?


#1

I have a somewhat awkward question.
it came up during coffee with a good friend the other day, and among other things, she mentioned her daughter once "taught" a good friend how to kiss before a date with a boy.
apparently the 2 went no further than simple kissing techniques and there was no attraction between the 2, just once friend passing along a lesson.

I was just wondering the church teaching on this if it is strictly as a favour between 2 friends and there is no sexual arousal or touching between the 2?

God Bless,

Leanne.


#2

I wonder how you would find Church teaching about it if the Church does not teach anything about it. I haven’t seen anything. I have long observed this fascinating phenomenon that they dance with each other in public, go to the powder room with each other, hug and kiss each other, and call each other their “girlfriend”, instead of “friend”, all of this, and usually it appears that they don’t get turned on. If they did that with a guy “friend”, it would be different.

Of course, there are some Catholics, not many at all, but they don’t even believe in kissing before marriage.


#3

definitely not a good idea...


#4

I say that it's kind of weird, but not sinful. It could be dangerous too, but, meh. I'd say mostly just weird.

Besides, everyone knows it's more fun to learn and practice your kissing with your guy anyway. haha!


#5

Techniques?? :smiley: When I was a boy, we guys would teach each other Kung-Fu techniques, acrobatic bicycle techniques, maybe even techniques to put on a tie. But kissing techniques? :stuck_out_tongue:

OK, I think techniques would be allright between married people, but with boys and girls dating each other, this sounds like inviting trouble, to me. There’s no need for boys and girls to explore kissing techniques, and there’s no need for girls to prepare each other in advance of a date between people who are not married to each other.

The Catholic teaching is that seeking sexual arousal and the enjoyment of sexual pleasure should take place only in marriage. The word “techniques” suggests to me that this kind of kissing goes beyond simply showing a sign of affection, and it crosses into the sexual domain (sexual exploration, deliberately seeking arousal, deliberately giving and receiving sexual pleasure). Nothing wrong with it, if married people do it. But non-married people should stick to kisses that are not meant to sexually arouse and sexually gratify each other.


#6

[quote="Joseph_L_Varga, post:5, topic:218205"]
Techniques?? :D When I was a boy, we guys would teach each other Kung-Fu techniques, acrobatic bicycle techniques, maybe even techniques to put on a tie. But kissing techniques? :p

OK, I think techniques would be allright between married people, but with boys and girls dating each other, this sounds like inviting trouble, to me. There's no need for boys and girls to explore kissing techniques, and there's no need for girls to prepare each other in advance of a date between people who are not married to each other.

The Catholic teaching is that seeking sexual arousal and the enjoyment of sexual pleasure should take place only in marriage. The word "techniques" suggests to me that this kind of kissing goes beyond simply showing a sign of affection, and it crosses into the sexual domain (sexual exploration, deliberately seeking arousal, deliberately giving and receiving sexual pleasure). Nothing wrong with it, if married people do it. But non-married people should stick to kisses that are not meant to sexually arouse and sexually gratify each other.

[/quote]

I agree with you with one caveat. I don't think that trying to perfect "technique" necessarily means seeking sexual arousal over showing affection. I am thinking specifically of when my husband and I first kissed. It was his first ever kiss, and his mouth was gaped open. Partially from surprise, partially from "oh-my-gosh-i-can't-believe-this-is-really-happening!" giggle

So I can see the desire to try to perfect that so you can show affection without, say, drooling all over your partner or eeesntially eating their face.

But it's more fun to learn that with your spouse/significant other (although with an SO it's to the point of showing affection, not deriving sexual pleasure) and significanly less weird.

Although what person admits not "practicing" on their hand? LOL


#7

[quote="Whitacre_Girl, post:6, topic:218205"]
I agree with you with one caveat. I don't think that trying to perfect "technique" necessarily means seeking sexual arousal over showing affection. I am thinking specifically of when my husband and I first kissed. It was his first ever kiss, and his mouth was gaped open. Partially from surprise, partially from "oh-my-gosh-i-can't-believe-this-is-really-happening!" giggle

So I can see the desire to try to perfect that so you can show affection without, say, drooling all over your partner or eeesntially eating their face.

But it's more fun to learn that with your spouse/significant other (although with an SO it's to the point of showing affection, not deriving sexual pleasure) and significanly less weird.

Although what person admits not "practicing" on their hand? LOL

[/quote]

LOL, I see your point. And girls are sometimes more innocent than we think. I remember when my niece was 13 or so, and had a heart, pierced by an arrow, painted on her palm. I asked her, who was the boy involved, and she told me that there was no boy involved. :D They were just playing and having fun with her best friend (another girl), and they had the idea that both of them should paint this pierced heart on their hands. :) And that was it, that was the whole story. :p Simple and innocent. Just two girls playing and having fun.


#8

I don't care what you call it- its still a homosexual encounter. But people will do what they wanna do. Thats life.


#9

Exactly - what would be the response of your friend if her daughter “taught” this friend how to have sex - without at all being turned on, of course, just the techniques (and it can be done, think of prostitutes) - prior to the friend’s wedding night?

French kissing is foreplay, pure and simple. Nothing merely friendly about it, whatever the intent might be. A definite no-no.


#10

[quote="BlueShadow123, post:8, topic:218205"]
I don't care what you call it- its still a homosexual encounter. .

[/quote]

Exactly. I find this quite disturbing. I can't believe the girl's mom seems to think it's completely normal.


#11

[quote="Contra_Mundum, post:10, topic:218205"]
Exactly. I find this quite disturbing. I can't believe the girl's mom seems to think it's completely normal.

[/quote]

It wasnt like the 2 were french kissing. Just that one of them was nervous, only having kissed a few boys before, and the other just apparently leant over and said "like this!" And gave her a short, non tonguey peck on the lips. The 2 giggled over it and i'm not sure it was sexual at all...


#12

[quote="LeeLeeMoo, post:11, topic:218205"]
It wasnt like the 2 were french kissing. Just that one of them was nervous, only having kissed a few boys before, and the other just apparently leant over and said "like this!" And gave her a short, non tonguey peck on the lips. The 2 giggled over it and i'm not sure it was sexual at all...

[/quote]

One of them wanted to do this and coerced the other one into it. watch for this. Or the one who said she had kissed boys also wanted to kiss her friend and made up the story. Someone liked it, I would bet a big amount on it.

how old are these girls and why did the one girl already have several kissing experiences with boys?:eek:

While not necessarily homosexual by one, it probably was by the other. Sinful or encouraging sin, why play with this? I take it they are not Catholic.


#13

YES!

And it is also an occasion of scandal. Practicing for a possible unchaste encounter with someone else.


#14

I completely agree with this. Some teens get involved in these things and experiemnt with their sexuality because friends tell them it’s not a big deal, that’s what friends do, of course they’re not gay, etc. Nothing innocent in this.


#15

[quote="LeeLeeMoo, post:11, topic:218205"]
It wasnt like the 2 were french kissing. Just that one of them was nervous, only having kissed a few boys before, and the other just apparently leant over and said "like this!" And gave her a short, non tonguey peck on the lips. The 2 giggled over it and i'm not sure it was sexual at all...

[/quote]

She was acting as a pretend "boyfriend" for the other girl, fer crying out loud. That in itself indicates that it was far from an innocent kiss, whether tongue was involved or not.

Two girls should not be kissing each other in the manner that a girl would kiss a boy. These girls were doing exactly that.

It's not that difficult to understand.


#16

And you better hope she didn’t like it either. Who knows what would happen then.

I hope she never does it again.

It IS a homosexual encounter and hopefully you will eventually understand that.


#17

It is not a homosexual encounter per se--it was a dramatic "pre-enactment" in which they are role-playing a heterosexual contact--but it is a near occasion of sin. I don't say this just because they could actually stir up a desire in themselves for unchaste sexual contact. I say it because being flippant about kissing--let alone making a kiss with someone you have no intention of marrying a "thing" that you covet quite apart from the young man himself--is a bad attitude for a teen to carry into dating.

Kissing isn't a technical exchange of enjoyable-yet-unforbidden services that you practice for. The innocence of the encounter described by the OP is that the girls were ignorantly treating it as such. Nevertheless, it is not appropriate for them to continue in that ignorance.

Kissing is an act of intimacy. If an object of their hopes were to see one of them jokingly sitting in his place, he would probably not find it amusing. Neither would any male guardian of the chastity of those two girls. The girls ought to cut this ill-advised silliness out in the future, before their fathers and brothers see them and lock them up somewhere:

"*Our sister is little
and she has no breasts as yet.
What shall we do for our sister
when her courtship begins?

If she is a wall,
we will build upon it a silver parapet;
If she is a door,
we will reinforce it with a cedar plank."

I am a wall,
and my breasts are like towers.
So now in his eyes I have become
one to be welcomed*."
Song of Songs 8:8-10

Those girls need encouragement in the direction of being a citadel, and thereafter "one to be welcomed". It is high time to get started.


#18

They did not mean for it to be a homosexual encounter. But it is two girls kissing. That is a lesbian act. Even if they are not lesbians, they committed a homosexual act.


#19

[quote="BlueShadow123, post:18, topic:218205"]
They did not mean for it to be a homosexual encounter. But it is two girls kissing. That is a lesbian act. Even if they are not lesbians, they committed a homosexual act.

[/quote]

According to the Catechism:

2357 *Homosexuality *refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

What the OP described was almost certainly no more than flippant silliness, and flippant because it was ignorant. Unless there was an intent to arouse, whether spoken or unspoken, I fail to see how this could possibly be characterized as a homosexual act. Heaven forbid that someone tell those girls such a thing!

Even if one or both of them were attempting a covert homosexual encounter--and I find that highly unlikely, although it is possible--it is enough to warn them away from acting like that on the more widely-applicable grounds that it makes kissing into a cheap form of entertainment. That is a danger to chastity, no matter what your orientation.

The girls ought to be chided, but a single act of foolishness should not be given undue importance, not when there was no intent to sin. Homosexuality is more attractive to the curiosity when it is too much of a red button issue with the parents. A hysterical attitude towards homosexuality can also be too easily interpreted as an uncharitable rejection of homosexual persons....and some teens do have SSA, a burden which is extremely difficult for them. If you treat homosexual tendencies as a form of leprosy that can be contracted by a chance bit of foolishness, you may put a young person in a far worse place than you started. Rather, persons with SSA are people whose sexual proclivities will not lead to genital expressions that are according to God's design. That doesn't mean that those with SSA are not persons whose being in its entirety cannot be made as suitable to God as any of the saints. That is not such a subtle distinction, but it is an important one to keep very clear.


#20

Well, to me the episode seems to have been an impulsive action, not any premeditated attempt to sneak a homosexual encounter. However, it seems to me that if this had occured between two boys, then the OP would not had any question as to whether it was inappropriate. Unfortunately, the idea of girls kissing as a joke or to be provocative seems to have become quite accepted in some segments of teen and preteen society – even Miley Cyrus of “Hannah Montana” fame posted provocative photos of her and female friends on her website (or was it Facebook site?) and justified it as just kidding around. However, this kind of behavior worries me in that it very well may have derived from a genre of porn (as well as live “gentlemen’s” shows) featuring “lesbian” encounters meant for the consumption and enjoyment of men.

I don’t think the two girls here are much more likely to actually be lesbians than the general girl population. However, I think such activity can certainly fit under the Catholic definition of scandal. Since in this day and age some people are very quick to label a person as “gay” or “lesbian” at a young age, if two girls kissed in order to “try out” techniques and someone, say, snapped a picture with a cell phone and sent it to all their friends, and/or posted it on Facebook…well, obviously this could be a problem.

Also, the emphasis on kissing as being about certain “techniques” meant to maximize sensual pleasures also seems to be quite removed from how most responsible parents would like their children to view intimate activity. I’m not of the camp that thinks all mouth-to-mouth kissing is sexual or sinful, but I do think it is meant to be an intimate act that conveys affection, not a way to show off technical skills.


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