Who know where they all are now! Thanks Obama!
Unfortunately, Gitmo is a conundrum. Personally, I don’t agree with indefinite detention of anyone without a trial. And, not all of the terrorists at Gitmo were necessarily terrorists when they were captured in the first place. But Gitmo has certainly turned them into terrorists. So, yeah, it’s like, we can’t keep them because we don’t really have solid enough evidence about them, but we can’t release them either, because they’ve become hardened in the prison.
Gitmo is like a terrorist manufacturing facility. I’d probably turn terrorist if I was unjustly kept there without a charge or trial for 15 years…:shrug:
But I agree with you: if they weren’t dangerous before, they’re definitely dangerous now.
Why do you say that not all of the terrorists at Gitmo were “necessarily” terrorists when they were captured in the first place. But Gitmo has turned them into terrorists? You cannot possibly believe that - how can that even get into your way of thinking. The horrible people confined to Gitmo are not entitled to a trial - they are a dangerous enemy to all civilized people. They had been sorted out and the worst of the worst were there. They needed a firing squad! Instead Obama gave them all a pardon and they picked up where they left off! Afraid your thinking is clearly incorrect. No offense intended but it is chilling that they have been turned loose.
It isn’t necessarily that well known here in the U.S., but there was an extremely idiotic “bounty system” created, and that led to tribal warlords and unscrupulous/opportunistic liars just naming random people, in order to get filthy rich, and simply inventing make-believe crimes. It’s impossible to say at this point with complete certainty, but it’s pretty much taken for granted that at least some of the prisoners were just random people, completely innocent of any crime whatsoever, but who somebody named in order to get paid. And just so you understand, that’s just a wide-spread assumption, but nobody really knows because it’s all classified and secret. What we can be pretty sure of though, is that after being tortured for fifteen years or so, waterboarding, electrocuted genitalia, rectal feeding/prison rape, beatings, and all of the other lovely things we’ve done to them, is that these prisoners very likely despise the U.S. at this point. Some may have been enemy combatants, and some may have been normal people who just had opportunistic scumbag liars for enemies; we don’t know. It’s a state secret. It has come out, though, that people have died while being waterboarded and whatnot. Anyway, to answer your question, many, or maybe even most, weren’t terrorists at the time, but now, after what’s happened to them, it’s a pretty safe bet that they would be. And like anything, Americans will polarize on what they believe, and many would entirely write off what I just said.:shrug:
Gitmo, a gulag for the USA.
All countries in the past have tended not to release their POWs until the war is over.
The Terror War against America is still very much being waged.
It should come as not surprise that anti-Americans are for the release of these people, and that once released, Americans die as a direct result of these deadly terrorists once again taking up arms in their “Death to America!” Islamist war.
The War against Terror will by definition never be over. Plenty of Americans themselves have ethical concerns about Gitmo and the way it is run.
Too bad the people staying there don’t have the same concern for us.
Actually, it looks like the folks at GIMTO get better treatment than some of our prisoners here state-side, unless they are known to be a major security risk of some kind.
So you regularly torture your prisoners in jails in the USA? That is interesting to know. You also detain them without recourse to a trial?
I agree that there are concerns about the way it was run, but the point is still valid. They were captured as combatants in a war zone. Per the Geneva Convention, you cannot subject PoW’s to trials. So of course they are held without trial.
And it is not a given that the War on Terror will never be over.
It’s a shadow war, in some form or other it will still carry on, it will be replaced by some other nebulous war on a value or concept. As to the Geneva convention, As to the Geneva Convention the US like many another large state regularly violates that when it is convenient.
That is unsupported conjecture.
As to the Geneva convention, As to the Geneva Convention the US like many another large state regularly violates that when it is convenient.
But, in this case, it did not. And I’m rather glad that the Gitmo camp exists. Since they were captured while not wearing a uniform, the US would have been within the rights of the Geneva Convention to simply shoot them. No trial there either.
And while I agree that there are some ethical issues that detract from it, the very fact that there is the camp populated by live PoWs is good thing. It beats the other option the US had.
Don’t expect people who will not oppose those who shout “Death to America” to in any way care if terrorists are released to kill even more Americans.
No, No, and you don’t know. Save the venom for the snakes - they will be crushed.
The thread is not about me Darryl and talking in this manner about other posters breaks forum rules. I’m going to ask you once only to cease it. You know very well I dislike death threats shouted at anyone if you have read my posts for a long time. Do not use the thread to take personal shots at me again or I will pass on the posts concerned to moderators.
Returning to Brendan’s points, your right one of my points is a conjecture. However by this point I am rather jade regarding the endless wars on this, that and the other. I agree that since the POWs in Gitmo were not wearing uniforms the US would have been within it’s rights to shoot them in some cases. I view the camp as problematic insomuch as it provides fuel for you opponents and also the level of secrecy over things that went on there concern me. To some extent I accept that such prisoners have to be held under high security and a level of secrecy is probably therefore unavoidable. My wife is much less soft-hearted than I and basically would resort to the maxim attributed to a particular clergyman of, Kill them all and let God sort out his own", when it comes to IS or Al-Queda. She strongly believes that if you invade or hurt people belonging to a nation that no mercy or kindness beyond a swift death is merited for those carrying out such actions.
I find Gitmo and similar approaches problematic as we are almost wandering into the enemy’s camp and embracing his methods at points with them and in danger of becoming what we despise. This is probably inevitable though and ultimately for now IS, Al-Queda and their ilk are monsters of a kind that can only be reasoned with by force at this point.However unfortunately all the major powers of the world also have some hand in creating them due to their usage of proxy armies and arming various groups over the last century.
Such a war is ultimately as unwinnable as any war of 'army vs ‘terrorists’, you will simply finda a new supply of snakes. You can certainl contain them or quell them somewhat but as it stands there is no real unified motion to do so. Also even if there were in today’s world these groups are nigh impossible to totally combat. IS has a conventional military wing which can be broken and crushed and you can certainly reduce the effectiveness of the more clandestine wing by various methods. However I see no likelihood of the snakes been utterly crushed or eliminated and hope at best for containment.
Of course a president who will open up the nuclear option to a country founded on cries of Death to America will release terrorists to kill Americans again, with impunity.
And of course the worlds left, anti-western to the core, will support this, unequivocally.
This is what the left is all about, what the left has always been about.