Giuliani says he's not sure collusion is a crime despite Mueller investigation


#1

EXCERPT
Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump’s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, said Monday that he’s not sure collusion with Russia would be considered a crime.

But legal experts have repeatedly said that anyone found collaborating with Russia on the 2016 election could be charged with other crimes, such as conspiracy – and special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation is ongoing.
Asked about former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort’s upcoming trial, Giuliani told CNN “New Day” co-anchor Alisyn Camerota that Manafort “was not involved with intimate business relationships with Donald Trump.”

“Four months, they’re not going to be colluding with Russia, which I don’t even know if that’s a crime, colluding about Russians,” Giuliani, a former federal prosecutor, continued. “You start analyzing the crime – the hacking is the crime. … The President didn’t hack.”…

The President has repeatedly denied that there was any collusion between his campaign and Moscow. But he has made a similar argument to that of Giuliani’s, telling The New York Times in December that “There is no collusion, and even if there was, it’s not a crime.”

At a CNN town hall in April, former FBI Director James Comey, whom Trump fired, said collusion “is not actually a thing that exists under the federal laws of the United States.”

Instead, Comey continued, the question is whether any Americans conspired with a foreign government to commit crimes against the US, which is a crime.

And speaking to CNN in May, Carrie Cordero, a CNN legal analyst and an adjunct senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, said collusion isn’t a crime “in the literal sense” but that there could be related criminal violations in colluding, such as receiving foreign money in a political campaign or assisting with or being an accessory to computer hacking.


#2

Of course it’s not a crime. I think that’s pretty well understood by everybody. In and of itself “collusion” is nothing. Now, if it was collusion to commit a crime, that would be different. Then it would be properly called “conspiracy”.

But the only place in the federal statutes in which “collusion” is stated to be a crime is in anti-trust law.


#3

I believe that in the context of the evolution of the Trump effort to discredit the investigation into Russian meddling that recently has been spearheaded by Giuliani, it is notable that Trump’s lawyer’s new focus is on the claim that collusion is not a crime.

First the Trump story was “no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”

November 11, 2016: Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks gave the Associated Press a blanket denial of Trump campaign contacts with Russia, stating, “It never happened. There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”

Then the story became “There is No Collusion!” (ad nauseam as recently as a tweet, 12:35 PM - Jul 29, 2018)

Now the story is that well collusion is not a crime…


#4

Unless Trump and Putin colluded to commit a crime, collusion in and of itself isn’t one. Heck, attempting to effect the outcome of an election isn’t a crime for that matter.


#5

There’s nothing new in it. Trump has been saying for nearly two years now that collusion isn’t a crime. So has anyone who knows the law at all. The only context in which collusion itself is a crime is in colluding to evade anti-trust laws.

And efforts to discredit the Mueller investigation has gone on for a long time. Remember 'witch hunt"? Trump has been saying that for more than a year.


#6
  1. We had no contact with Russians
  2. We had contact with Russians but didn’t collude
  3. We colluded with Russians but it’s not a crime

Wonder what the next step is?


#7

Where has Trump admitted to “colluding” with Russia to effect the outcome of the 2016 Presidential election? The article cited seems to have Giuliani denying any collusion, and adding that even if there were, it’s not a crime.


#8

Oh, Trump admits nothing…

“On January 6, 2017, the U.S. intelligence community issued a report that showed there were two campaigns to elect Donald Trump: one run by Trump and one run by the Russian government. Trump and many of his senior advisors and close associates have repeatedly denied any connections between the two campaigns, despite the fact that they were working towards the same goal, at the same time, and utilizing the same tactics.”


#9

Giuliani is awful and useless. But no one has been able to say what crime they are actually investigating.


#10

The indictments produced by the investigation provide the specificity you desire.


#11

No they don’t. The indictments would need to be for a crime alleged before the investigation started. The feds can investigate anyone, including you and me, and come up with chargeable offenses.


#12

“Show me the man, and I’ll find the crime” - Lavrentiy Beria


#13

well I don’t know about anyone else but I was going to vote demopublican until Putin beamed information into my head and said I need to vote republocrat so I asked my pet dog and she told me to go with her. Now I am really confused. The voices shouting collision just won’t shut up. Now where did I put my meds.


#14

The Steel Dossier attempted to effect the outcome of an election, did it not?


#15

The mandate to investigate coordinating activities between the Russians and the Trump campaign does not mention collusion. Whom is Trump trying to fool?


#16

If you include the Republican primaries, yes.


#17

Unless we knew exactly what the hypothetical “collusion” would entail, there’s simply no way to tell if it would be a crime or not.


#18

Nobody. He’s not the one who constantly says it. It’s the Dems, including on here.

The only certain collusion with Russia is the DNC and Clinton campaign that colluded with Russians through Steele. That’s all Russian-provided information; bogus but still Russian.


#19

But Trump claims not to have known about the meeting with Russians in Trump Tower:

His tweet on 07-27-18
…I did NOT know of the meeting with my son, Don jr. Sounds to me like someone is trying to make up stories in order to get himself out of an unrelated jam (Taxi cabs maybe?). He even retained Bill and Crooked Hillary’s lawyer. Gee, I wonder if they helped him make the choice!
4:56 AM - Jul 27, 2018

It just defies logic that he did not know that a meeting was going to take place in advance.


#20

The HRC had more direct contact with Russians than the Trump campaign. It wasn’t a crime for her, either.
She even paid a firm who hired a foreign agent to work with Russians to put together that “dossier “. One of the leaders of that firm, Fusion GPS, met with that Russian lawyer before and after she arranged that meeting with Trump Jr.

And none of that was illegal.

The Clinton campaign also met with Ukraine agents (Ukraine opposed Trump) about the election.

That was not illegal.

None of this is illegal. Opposition research is not illegal


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