Gloria on Sunday, November 2


#1

Hi,

I’m planning music for the Commemoration of All Souls, which falls on a Sunday this year, and it seems the Gloria is omitted.

Can anyone help me understand why?


#2

Because it’s a Mass for the Dead. It’s not just an intention to pray for the dead (which can happen on a Sunday), but it’s a particular type of Mass.

In Masses for the Dead, the gloria is not used.


#3

usccb.org/bible/readings/110214.cfm

The readings on that Sunday will be for All Souls in the U.S.

I also found this
catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/LawText/Index/6/SubIndex/98/LawIndex/7
http://www.catholicliturgy.com/images/q.gif What do the rubrics say regarding the use of the Gloria on All Souls Day when the commemoration falls on a Sunday? I have seen the Gloria used in some cases, omitted in others.
http://www.catholicliturgy.com/images/a.gif According to the Sacramentary "Even when November 2 falls on a Sunday, All Souls Day is celebrated. . . " The GIRM states that “The Gloria is sung or said on Sundays outside Advent and Lent, on solemnities and feasts, and at solemn local celebrations.” (no.31) There is no mention in the rubrics of omitting the Gloria on Sunday for All Souls so it should be recited. Also, since All Souls Day is not considered a feast or a solemnity, the Gloria is not mandatory for weekday commemorations of All Souls Day.


#4

The second source got it wrong.

All Souls day will not be a “Sunday during Ordinary Time” (when the Gloria would normally be done) instead, it’s a special commemoration that has its own norms. It is a Mass for the Dead (a special one) and as such, the Gloria is not recited.

The Mass of All Souls Day completely replaces the Sunday Mass.

Yes, the day-of-the-week will be Sunday, but the Office of that day will be All Souls Day.


#5

Fr David is correct.

I checked the Ordo of our abbey and it stipulates that the Requiem Mass will be sung and there is no Gloria, as is the custom for a Requiem Mass.

I would trust Fr. David and our abbey with this; the latter is of the Solesmes congregation and takes liturgy very seriously, and anything I’ve seen posted by Fr. David has been spot-on.


#6

Not only is the Gloria not recited, but the music should be carefully selected to reflect the nature of the liturgy: a mass for the dead.


#7

Indeed, but since our abbey uses the Graduale Romanum it’s a given that the chants will be appropriate :slight_smile:


#8

Anyone have any links on this? I cannot find it, at least yet.


#9

Links for what exactly?

The Graduale?


#10

Found it!

archgh.org/default/prayer-worship/office_worship/Final_Year_of_Grace_2014.pdf

November 2, Sunday, [FONT=Arial,Arial][size=3]Commemoration of All the Faithful Departed [/size][/FONT](All Souls)
 Evening Mass, Saturday, November 1, Commemoration of all the Faithful Departed.
 Suggested readings in the ordo/lector workbook: Wisdom 3: 1-9; Psalm 23: 1-3a, 3b-4, 5, 6; Romans 5: 5-11 or Romans 6:3-9; John 6: 37-40.
 No Gloria; the creed is recited.


#11

I needed wanted some documentation as to there being no Gloria. I am preparing a Mass schedule for the musicians. If I throw something like this out, I like to provide documentation so the priest doesn’t have to chase the answer (if he doesn’t know yet). I sure you can appreciate it if anyone came to you with a question or decision and had already done the leg work it takes. Priests are busy doing things only priest can do, or have to do, or getting a little break. Lay people need to take up all the mundane task they can, like computer searches! :smiley:


#12

OK. I suppose I have a different style. The way I see it is that it’s my responsibility to know these things; not to wait for someone to research it for me on the internet. :shrug:


#13

He probably does. I just hate to assume.


#14

Fr. David, will the Mass for November 2 in the Extraordinary Form also be the Mass for the Dead? We will be in Paris on that day and will be staying in a hotel near St.-Germain l’Auxerrois where that Mass is offered. I have not been to a Requiem Mass since before Vatican II. It would be wonderful to be able to attend a real Requiem Mass again. It is so beautiful, and reminds us of our own mortality as well as praying for the dead.


#15

Yes, it will be. “Requiem Mass” just means the Introit for the Mass is requiem aeternam. It’s the same for the OF as well as the EF, so if you’ve been to a funeral in the OF, technically it’s also a Requiem Mass. Just the Introit is almost never used in the OF, of course…


#16

Almost, but not “never”. A monk passed away last week at our abbey, at the tender age of 97! A Requiem Mass in the OF was held for him. In fact for all Masses for the dead, whether for commemorations or funerals, the Requiem Mass is chanted in Gregorian chant.

You’d be surprised too, how many requests our schola gets for Requiem Masses at funerals in the town we sing in, with barely over 150k population. We only do OF Masses (not because of prejudice; there are no EF Masses in town).

So it’s too soon to sing a Requiem for the Requiem.


#17

This is incorrect. In the EF, Masses for the Dead are not celebrated on Sundays, and thus All Souls is observed this year on Monday. 3 November.


#18

Have you checked the Roman Missal?


#19

Yes, Father, and plenty of other EF books in my library. The notion of celebrating All Souls on a Sunday is a modern one, dating only from 1970. At my FSSP parish we will celebrate it on Monday this year.


#20

I did not catch the “EF/OF” distinction there. I took it (mistakenly) as a general statement that no Masses for the Dead are permitted on Sundays.

I don’t know the Extraordinary Form calendar.


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