Go to Hell - Stay there forever


#241

That’s the problem I have, I have a tendency to see things in black and white although I wish I didn’t.


#242

What if someone doesn’t know God exists? Does that mean they get to decide after they’re dead and become aware of who God is?


#243

No. God has NEVER had plan B., according to God’s design/ plan A., Adam and Eve MUST committed the acts of sin/ “fall”.

According to God design/ plan A., their sin/ “fall” was predestined from all eternity.

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If Adam and Eve would not commit the acts of sin/ “fall,” God would instantly lost His omniscience, because His all eternity Predestined design/ plan A. failed.
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The same principle as a predestined to heaven would end up in hell or a not predestined to heaven would end up in heaven, in the same way God would instantly lose His omniscience, DE FIDE.

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310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it?
With infinite power God could always create something better.
But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection.
With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection.
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314 We firmly believe that God is master of the world and of its history.
Will we fully know the ways by which - even through the dramas of evil and sin - God has guided his creation to that definitive sabbath rest for which he created heaven and earth.

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EVIL, CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
We cannot say without denying the Divine omnipotence that another equally perfect universe could not be created in which evil would have no place.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.
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He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.
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God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.
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Hence Providence is at once universal, immediate, efficacious, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him (I, Q. xxii, a. 3; Q. ciii, a. 6); efficacious, in that all things minister to God’s final purpose, a purpose which cannot be frustrated (Contra Gent., III, xciv);
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Nor would God permit evil at all, unless He could draw good out of evil (St. Augustine, Enchir. xi in "P. LX, 236; Serm.
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Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in P.L.
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That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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God bless


#244

All of you saying that hell is unjust, are you saying unrepentant sinners should be given the glory of God? Union with God without having repented?

I would like to hear all your answers.


#245

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#841

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

[848] "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338


#246

The answer is very simple.

THE MYSTERY OF PREDESTINATION by John Salza.

Page 4; … He grants the efficacious grace of perseverance only to His elect. End quote.
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It is INFALLIBLE teachings of the Trent and FORMAL teaching of the Catholic Church, without God’s gift of efficacious grace of perseverance NO ONE can be saved.

Every elect of God at their baptism is a receiver of God’s efficacious grace of perseverance, without this special grace of perseverance EVERY ELECT of God would die in the state of mortal sin and would all end up in hell, no salvation without it.

The above special grace of perseverance is INFALLIBLY protect every elect of God not to die in the state of mortal sin.
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Those who are not predestined to heaven, no one receives this special grace, whatever they do, there is no other alternative, they all die in the state of mortal sin, DE FIDE .
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This is above one of the greatest Soteriological Fact that proves, God is responsible for the salvation of the entire human race.

Only God knows who are who are predestined to heaven. – I Believe God predestined to heaven everyone.

I believe God’s Justice and His duty of care DEMANDS, to predestine everyone to heaven and to provide His special grace of perseverance to everyone . – There is no salvation without it.
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God bless


#247

Not true. This is not Catholic teaching. Read the Catechism.


#248

The only thing I objected to was your overconfidence that the church through the centuries has frequently denounced universalism. It hasn’t. I challenged you to produce something authoritative to back up such an enormous claim (a conciliar creed or decree or anything dogmatic and binding on all the faithful). The article you sent brought up emperor Justinian and Const II. I’ve already provided recent Catholic scholarship to suggest the emperor’s anathemas were not necessarily a part of that council. But, let’s say that they were. Let’s say that the emperor and the council fathers all agreed to denounce the particular apokatastasis of Origen. It doesn’t follow that universalism per se is not an option for any Christian belonging to an ancient communion (Catholic or Orthodox). It simply isn’t reasonable to think that the three most important and influential Catholic theologians of the 20th century (De Lubac, Rahner and Von Balthasar), all of whom were universalists of one stripe or another, might have simply missed the obvious historical fact that the church has consistently denounced it as a non-option. That isn’t reasonable, not in the least. De Lubac was a cardinal. Von Balthasar was also elevated to the level of Cardinal by JP2, and all of this occurred after their teachings on universalism had been made public. And all of this says nothing of the witness of the patristics on this issue, who are replete with universalism.

I know it’s surprising to a lot of Catholics that universalism (at least hoping for it a la Balthasar) is a love theological option for any believer. I know. But that surprise has nothing to do with the truth of the matter. I don’t know what the truth is on this matter. But I do know that the massa damnata doctrine of St Augustine is ridiculous. So is his belief that Hell is full, as in, more in Hell than in Heaven. These are repulsive beliefs, unworthy of the body of Christ.


#249

You find it in the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Predestination of the elect.

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/predestination
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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EVIL, CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm
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A TIPTOE THROUGH TULIP James Akin, etc.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/TULIP.htm
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God bless


#250

The problem is that you are misinterpreting Catholic teaching the same way Protestants misinterpret the Bible. Simply read the Catechism if you want to learn Catholic teaching.


#251

I’m a Catholic and I study Catholic Soteriology from years.
Don’t forget, you are not my judge.

God bless


#252

Martin Luther was also Catholic.
I judge that you are misrepresenting Catholic teaching.


#253

It’s not that Hell is unjust, per se. If purgatory were thought of as a hospital (rehabilitative for the sick soul), then Hell can be thought of as a prison of sorts. As in, it can be punitive. That isn’t the problem. The problem is Hell conceived as a place of neverending torment and suffering from which there is no exit and into which the love of God has no access. If that’s what you conceive Hell as, there are serious theological and philosophical problems that follow…

C.S. Lewis imagined that the door to Hell is locked from the inside. I can accept that conception. It makes a lot of sense of human free will. But if that’s the case, then that door can be unlocked (by the “prisoner”).

It’s the “no exit,” neverending torment/suffering idea that’s so preposterous. Also, the everlasting nature of a “no exit” Hell basically entails that evil wins, in the end. Or, at the very least it’s a “draw.” Two tracks running side by side indefinitely into the future (Heaven and Hell) is a definitely a “draw,” which implies that evil is just as powerful as the Good…

There are several religions that teach the co-eternality of good and evil. Christianity just isn’t one of them.


#254

Please stop insulting me!!!

God bless


#255

So you are saying that Satan and the fallen angels will someday regain their positions in heaven from which they fell? If not, why not? Since God is all merciful.


#256

I’m not insulting you, i’m just correcting your claims about what the Catholic Church teaches. . If you’re going to post your personal opinions Make that clear, don’t misrepresent Catholic teaching.

blessings.


#257

Agree. I have read somewhere that Aquinas says anger is a legitimate response to injustice.


#258

None of the theories are dogmas of the Church. As Catholic Enclopedia stated:

Owing to the infallible decisions laid down by the Church, every orthodox theory on predestination and reprobation must keep within the limits marked out by the following theses:

a) At least in the order of execution in time ( in ordine executionis ) the meritorious works of the predestined are the partial cause of their eternal happiness
b) hell cannot even in the order of intention ( in ordine intentionis ) have been positively decreed to the damned, even though it is inflicted on them in time as the just punishment of their misdeeds;
c) there is absolutely no predestination to sin as a means to eternal damnation.

Pohle, J. (1911). Predestination. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm


#259

Every human is given a conscience that is sufficient for them until they receive the Holy Spirit. They are to hone it to perfection which occurs with good choices and obeying Laws. The graces they receive prove no impediment but opens doors to enlightenment and a healthy desire to know God better. Eventually, this leads them to Baptism.


#260

Quite right, God’s mercy endures forever. That is a theological strand running through the entire sacred scriptures and probably also through the entire history of the Church.

Fascinating that given all I said responding to your question that you’re curious about angelology… Sounds like you want to have a “scholastic disputation.” There was surely no shortage of theological speculation in the high Middle Ages, to include pondering the angels. In truth, we know very little about them. I know that St Thomas Aquinas favored a view that angels are “fully actualized” at the moment of their creation, with no potentiality at all. From that opinion, it would follow that once an angel has set its will, it cannot alter that will (cannot change its mind, say). But who knows? This is just so much speculation.

But whatever might be said of the angels, humans can and do change their minds (and often). They do so sometimes in response to great love. They do so sometimes when the “blinders” have been removed from their eyes and they see reality as it really is.


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