That doesn’t make it right or lessen the severity of what they both did. We are to watch for the coming of the Lord like watchmen for the daybreak, as He could come at any moment. That includes our deaths. In Jesus’ parable with the wise and foolish virgins, it didn’t matter that both stood there all night. The foolish ones didn’t bring enough oil, left to get some more, and were barred from the feast. That wasn’t a coincidence or an accident. They were willfully ill-prepared.
Obviously there are different levels of hell, much like there are different levels of heaven. Because of their superior intelligence the choice made by the fallen was instantly made with full knowledgeof the consequence. The damnation of a human soul is e result of a life of obstinate mortal sin. We speak with our actions, and the effect of mortal sin on the intellect is a darkening of the mind and a rationalization of evil. These days one can be told of the truth of the abortion industry complete where humans dissect and sell baby parts for $$$ and show the horrible photos, yet people still rationalize and choose it. Same with mortal sin. The consequence of unrepented mortal sin is eternal separation from God. Don’t be fooled…
I know it sounds bad to have a go at Christs teachings but does that parable not go against the idea that we should forgive 70x7 times? It would be a bit like telling a homeless person who is homeless as a result of being sacked for being late for their job because they did not fix their car in time, what they did was foolish but I am sure that we would help the homeless person get out of their sorry state?
Any teaching on hell is necessarily speculative. The New Testament is replete with messages that God died for all and that He desires all to be saved. However, the person in the New Testament who spoke the most about hell is Christ himself. So what is clear is that there are two strains of belief that are in tension with each other, the justice of God on the one hand And the love of God on the other. But I should also say that the teaching that Mercy trumps sacrifice is a clear teaching of the New Testament.
Justice itself is to render to each person what they are due, what they are owed. I’m not sure how you could justify the belief that a neverending punishment of torment and suffering is what is owed to a person who has sinned. It doesn’t matter what the magnitude or the number of the sins were, nothing could justifiably entail a neverending sentence. But that is precisely the bizarre, Augustinian position on Hell. And also that he thinks He’ll is full ( as in, the majority of humans will be in it)!! Those Catholics who are Augustinian in their beliefs on Hell and yet at the same time want to preach to the world that God IS love find themselves in an almost irreconcilable contradiction.
Hell is full. God is love. Those two things don’t go together. You tell yourself that free will solves all the problems, but it never could. I’m not how sure how free each one of us is, since we all very clearly have a fallen will-A fundamental inability to always see things as they are. A loving God Would always take that into account when he judges his creatures.
Whether or not we sympathize doesn’t make it any less of a mortal sin…
That mortal sin is enough. You might not like it or think it’s fair, but such an act is a deliberate rejection of God, and so the priest would likely be damned.
I recently read the account of a priest and an experience he had with a damned soul. A man was sick, and had also had issues with sexual sins. The priest came to his deathbed, heard his general confession, and offered him absolution. Shortly after his confession, the man died, and the priest was given a vision of the man, damned for eternity. When asked how this occurred, the man said that just before his death, he had had a temptation towards sexual immorality, and said that once he was better he would indulge it. For this, he had be damned.
The man had set his will against God, and he lost salvation for it.
You might not like it, but do not hide behind false platitudes and unfounded assertions. Hell is real, and it takes only a single mortal sin to get there. This is a frightening, yet sobering, thought, and it would do our entire society well to dwell on it more.
People love to have an “us vs them”… “Good vs Bad” separationalist mentality. It is easy to hate and judge from a distance. People want revenge and justice for those who did wrong. But the reality is, no one really knows the culpability of others actions. Biblical teachings on the subject are at best inconsistent and contradictory…at worst non-existent.
This kind of teaching is dangerous and immoral. No wonder there is so many mental health issues in our society!
I totally disagree. It is sadistic and unhealthy. People have enough issues in their lives. Worrying that those are just the beginning of their problems is setting the stage for a problematic scenario.
It is what Jesus said and what His Church has always taught.
There was a man who fell into an alligator pit and was torn to shreds and eaten alive; why did a God permit this? There was a toddler that fell from the 10th floor window to his death; why did God allow this? The fact that we live in a cosmos governed by laws is a sober reminder that there are real consequences that exist whether you personally think they are just or not. Jesus paid a horrible price for the salvation of souls; thus those who reject Christ and make a mockery of Him by continuing in mortal sin, are indeed in the road to eternal damnation. The problem is that you don’t believe in the teachings of Jesus. You are certainly free to become a Buddhist; though if you are searching for the truth, trust in Jesus.
What part of:
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”
Don’t you understand?
This is actually fairly easily addressed, though the answer will likely not satisfy you.
The punishment due for an action is in some degree related to the nature of the offended party. It is for me to hit my sister than my brother, worse still my father, and even worse still my mother. This is something we just know instinctually.
We also see that concept enshrined in almost all human law. The higher the “rank” of the offended party, the more severe the punishment.
Consider who the offended party is when we sin. Sure, we might hurt each-other, or we may hurt ourselves, but each sin we commit is also an affront against God. Given that God’s nature is infinite goodness, any affront against Him is of infinite magnitude, and deserving of infinite punishment. Hence, Hell is not only justified, it is mandated by even the smallest of sins.
It is only God’s mercy which saves any of us from eternal damnation, but in order to receive that salvation, his grace must be alive in our souls. Mortal sin kills that grace, which is why a person in mortal sin is denied access to His mercy, and therefore becomes subject to His justice.
Like I said, this answer isn’t going to satisfy you, but the strict fact of the matter is that your question has an answer. We just don’t like it because we can only think about things in finite terms. No matter who we offend on Earth, the offense is ultimately finite. This is not the case with offenses against God.
A mere walk in the park compared to eternal torment.
By the definition of God, it is not possible for him to be offended.
The man committed a mortal sin (the firm determination to act in a morally-sinful manner after healing), and suffered the consequence for that decision.
There is nothing dangerous nor immoral about recognizing that mortal sin begets damnation.
Once again, how so?
Contemplating the four last things is a highly recommended practice, and the real possibility of Hell is one of those last things. Everyone I know who really considers such things regularly is much happier and healthier for it, and there are all far less stressed out by the problems of the world.
Not offended in the human emotional sense, offended in the sense that an action is taken against Him.
First of all, a priest is claiming to have been given a vision, which is bogus to begin with. Secondly, I guess it depends on the state of mind of the person. Generally, I think fear is a bad motivator of love.
It’s Ok to say it is possible. But contriving a scenario, claiming to have received a vision is crossing the line to me.
Our forgiveness of their sins isn’t what matters in the end, it’s God’s, and the 70x7 was directed at us, not God. We need to be reminded of how often to forgive someone, not God. That parable would be applicable to that woman’s husband (if she had one) discovering her infidelity.
The priest knew he made a vow of chastity to God and that violating his vow and fornication are both grave sins. In spite of all this, the priest willingly put himself in an occasion to sin and did so. That’s not merely forgetting to fix one’s car and being late to work. If I had to make a comparison, it’s like drinking one’s self into a stupor, throwing a rock in someone’s window, and then getting fired after spending the night in jail and not showing up to work. We can hope that person finds another job, but that doesn’t change that what that person did was highly irresponsible and that there is a price to flouting one’s duties.
God is mercy, but He is also justice.
You seem to be forgetting Gods mercy, though you will probably accuse us of taking it for granted. I commit mortal sins mainly out of weakness, I confess them and sometimes I walk out of the Confessional and hope that I get killed there and then as I have no guarantee that I will be able to live free of mortal sin. Repentance is difficult and I believe that those who die in infancy or after being forgiven by a priest are jolly lucky. I do have a trust of God still thankfully but it is just hard living in this life, especially when we are told every day that we are literally treading on a thin rope between good and evil.
It is a philosophical anomaly.
This seems like a horrible way to have to live.
I’m just going to go ahead and assume you’re not Catholic, because if you are, then you are ignorant of numerous such visions. Volumes worth. They might not be common, but visions of Hell and the damned have a long and storied history in Catholicism. I am currently rereading a book, the one which I read the above chronicle from, which lists more than a dozen such visions and apparitions. You would do well to put aside your skepticism and learn from the deposit of faith God has granted us. The book’s title is The Dogma of Hell. it’s a fascinating read.
Not a bad motivator, but certainly far from ideal. Still, if it’s what gets the ball rolling then God bless it.
It’s not a contrivance. As stated above, there is a long and storied history of such visions. Do some reading on the subject. It is very sobering, but also spiritually beneficial.
I am not forgetting it. God’s mercy is boundless for those who choose to accept it. A person in mortal sin cannot make that choice.
I’m not discounting death-bed conversion, or literal changes of heart as a person is dying. Padre Pio gave at least one testimony showing that such repentance can be efficacious; but they should not be relied on as they are outside the normal means of salvation God has revealed to us.
I agree that life is hard, and that it is a difficult path to walk towards to Lord, but I would rather be aware of the narrowness of the path and walk across it cautiously than unaware and incautious.
It is loving to make someone ware of the dangers, even if the immediate knowledge is burdensome.
In the case of the person who ends up in jail for the night and ends up sacked and homeless we would still have to help that person rebuild their life. We could not just say “stay on the streets for good because you behaved recklessly”