Go to Hell - Stay there forever


That is not the assertion that I am making. I am not claiming that all visions are of equal merit, or even that all of them are true.

You are attempting to equivocate a wide range of different experience, which is, frankly, silly for someone who seems to pride themselves on being a rational thinker.

Even if you don’t accept private, individual revelations, there are multiple accounts of apparitions appearing to multiple people, attesting to the reality of Hell.

You also have to look at the nature of such experiences. Frequently, eastern religions employ psychotropic drugs in their religious ceremonies, as did many pagan religions. In those cases, I think we can clearly conclude that their visions were hallucinations brought about by the drugs. With these Christian mystics, there is no drug use so that explanation is out.

Now, there’s no way to exclude all potential mental issues which could result in visions, but the existence of a potential explanation is not sufficient reason to exclude the possibility of a vision being true.

Again, I encourage you to read the book. There are multiple accounts which cannot be explained away as psychological malady. Some of them occurred to multiple people, others left physical evidence after the event.

Alright, last post this time. I really have to get back to work.


I have committed mortal sins, I consider myself jolly lucky to have not died after committing them, as I deserve Hell why am I not there?


Just make sure you don’t die with unrepented sin on your soul. The state of mortal sin is to be in the territory of the devil, separated from God. On earth one has a chance to repent, but death can come suddenly and our soul leaves the body in the state it is in.


Thanks for the discourse. We will agree to disagree (I think!)

I appreciate the recommendation, but have no interest feeding someone’s pocketbook, buying a book that claims such nonsense as this. Human testimony is not a reliable historical source. Stories often are contorted due to certain motivations.

I am leaving as well…good day.


Why can’t God offer me confession to him before my soul leaves the body? supposing a plane crashes on me after I commit a mortal sin, my body is destroyed but God could surely miraculously keep my body tied to my soul before he separates it? He could then offer confession to him and I would have the option of accepting or refusing.


Everything you know about history is based on human testimony


No one is saying He can’t. That’s not the point. The point is that we shouldn’t be living our lives banking on that. You don’t know when you’re going to die. It’s good to want to not be in a state of mortal sin at death, that is in fact a very good thing. But it is much better to want to be in and work towards a state of grace for more than a second than it is for just a second.


You can always try to make an act of perfect contrition if confession is not available while the plane is plunging. Obviously, you don’t want to get on an airplane in the state of mortal sin; in fact, you should’t go through life in the state of mortal sin, as an airplane can fall on you even while you are taking a bubble bath or sitting in a movie theater; in fact, there could be an airplane 1 minutes away about to crash on you; so don’t take a chance, especially when Jesus warned that death often comes as a thief in the night when we least expect it.


How easy is it to make a perfect act of contrition? how do I even know if my contrition is perfect or imperfect? Why wont God let me know if my contrition is perfect or imperfect because frankly I am not certain!


Thus the reason to make an sacramental confession, that way you know for sure your sins have been obsolved. Having perfect contrition for your sins because they offended God requires loving God to the point of fearing offending Him, just like you fear hurting someone you love. There’s a difference between being sorry out of fear of going to hell, and being sorry out of sadness for having offended God. Yet God forgives you and absolves you from your sins through a sacramental confession, as long as you are sorry and intend to try to amend yourself. loving God requires knowing Him.


Would it not be unfair if God let me die in a state of mortal sin before being able to get to Confession? I could pictutre the scenario: I die and God tells me I am damned because of my mortal sin, I ask God why he could not have more mercy on me, why he could not let me commit the sin and then be forgiven in Confession, what would be his answer?


Amen xxx 10 characters


So God will let you go to hell if you want to. What about grace, providece, his love etc.? You sound as if God is indifferent, not caring if one chooses hell.


It seems unfair, as we choose evil because it seems good (sub specie boni). Is God like the gods of ancient
Greece careless of mankind (Tennyson)? It is unfair that God made us with passions inclining us to evil and the world, the flesh and the devil encourage us to sin, yet God seems to just say ‘you have free will’.

Also take the case of a boy of 14 who masturbates, omits to confess and carries the sin for life, even if he lives a good life he remains in sin.


It does not seem just to send one to hell for all time for missing Mass one Sunday, without good reason.


[quote=“Flopfoot, post:7, topic:540823”]
God lets them go to hell
Again you paint a God who does not care and says ‘if that is what you want, go to hell’


Our justice system seems fairer thatn God’s, as the punishments are more humane. We have banished torture, burning and ‘cruel and unusual punishments’.


Yet we must follow our consciences.

I agree fully. This is my concern. Why does God act in a way that seems unjust?


I am sorry to hear you are in a mess, and if the Holy Spirit inspires you I give him thanks for your constant encouragement, consolation and assistance to me.


There won’t be time to ask anything. If you die in the state of mortal sin you will thrust yourself away from God, the same way your eyes cannot help but turn away from the brightness of the sun. Instead of rising to fly toward God, a soul in mortal sin sinks into the abyss, as Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary, all the angels and saints, and heaven itself become distant and unreachable. There comes a time when the doors close. In hell there is no hope of getting out, but only despair.

Jesus gave a parable:

Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”


Why have I not died in a state of mortal sin? I deserve Hell, I just feel so lucky that I have not died in such a state.


This is not at all true. You could only believe this if you were unfamiliar with the debate. The church has no universal voice on this issue of Hell being full of humans. The East has almost no well-known representatives who advocated it. The “infernalist” belief is particularly linked to St Augustine and Augustinians (e.g., Aquinas) who followed him in the belief.

Those who advocate for the love of God drawing all men to Christ? Maximus the Confessor, Scotus Erigena, Gregory of Nyssa, Origen, Clement, Gregory Nazianzen, Mechtilde, Angela of Foligno, Julian of Norwich, St Therese, Adrienne von Speyr, Edith Stein, Karl Rahner, Von Balthasar, De Lubac, Walter Kasper and probably Ratzinger and our current pope, to boot. All of this is brought out in Dare We Hope? (except pope Francis, of course).

It is quite simply an erroneous claim that the debate is settled and that the whole Christian Church has sided with Augustine. I invite you to read and consider more. Additionally, your appeal to authority does not address my argument from injustice. So there’s that too…


He offers His mercy to all. Every moment we have a heart beat, a breath in our lungs, we have the chance to repent and accept that mercy.

God will not force that mercy on those who do not want it.


You have been blessed with the chance to repent :slight_smile:


No, we have hope in the grace of the Lord through the work of the cross. There is no condemnation if you are repenting and trusting in the lord. Stick to the sacraments and trust in the lord and not your own understanding


Didn’t you hear?
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

Sin has a terrible effect on the soul; look at people who are addicted to drugs and the torment misery and destruction it causes. Hell is like a horrific nightmare that one cannot wake up from. Thus Jesus urges everyone: REPENT! Thus the only souls who go to hell are those who say NO!!! I Will NOT repent! I WILL NOT SERVE!!!

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