I still feel angry with God for giving me chances to repent that he has not given others. I am angry that he could save me but not save another who has lived a similar life.
THIS TIMES 1000
How do you know? Why do you think God didn’t give them every chance to repent, as opposed to that person rejecting all of them? I’ll admit, it’s an awful thought, but that’s on them, not God.
You are correct in thinking this answer would not satisfy. My response is to merely flip the coin over. When you love God do you do so infinitely because he is infinite? Certainly not. There is nothing you could do, which would be infinite or deserving of an infinite consequence. A finite act entailing an infinite (neverending) negative consequence is quite simply an injustice. We, “being evil” as Christ says, here on Earth would never opt for an unending punishment inflicted on any criminal for his actions, no matter how many or how heinous. Yet you would try to argue that the God who IS love would do so? He would be more vengeful than a human court of law?
Absolutely! That is precisely the line of reasoning used by those of us (and we are many!) who reject Augustinian infernalism. God’s grace and his mercy extend to all because Christ died for all, desires to save all and the church prays for all (“lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy”).
Your great loves and your terrible sins are all finite in nature. However, precisely because God is infinite, He loves his creatures infinitely.
This is just CCC formulaic Catholicism. If p then q, if x then y. But the love of God knows no bounds. If he will “make him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in him,” the love of God surely knows no bounds—it is not wrapped up in nice conditional, catechetical formulas.
Maybe they did repent sometimes in their life but simply died in a state of mortal sin. Now they are in Hell and are mad jealous of the souls that managed to die after confessing their sins.
I agree with this more and more. Not that I don’t think it’s possible for someone to go to Hell; it is. But I think imagining you can reduce Gods mercy to a perfect little two line statement in a Catechism is foolish. We should approach these questions with way more humility for our human limitations instead of just pointing to a citation and considering the matter closed.
At the end of the day, God’s mercy and Gods justice are going to be tough for us to grasp.
Hell is not full of humans, but rather full of fallen angels and damned souls.
Nonsense. Hell is a dogma of the faith, and Jesus spoke repeatedly about damnation of the soul. Why do you ignore the Lord ? The saints you quoted spoke about God’s mercy, love and compassion, which is all true; Jesus Himself taught us about God’s mercy and love, but He and all those saints also spoke about God’s justice and the consequence of hell.
Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church about God’s justice. Nobody falls into hell by accident; rather it is a choice we make when we choose to do evil and refuse to repent. In eternity there is no time to change one’s mind.
You cannot think about hell as a punishment like going to jail is a punishment for doing breaking the law. No. Hell is a built-in consequence, much like blindness is the consequence for plucking yr own eyes out. You soul is eternal, thus the consequences are eternal.
I can tell you to stop smoking if not you increase your chance of getting lung cancer. You can’t scream “Injustice!” If you end up destroying your lungs. Likewise, mortal sin destroys the eternal soul’s life of grace, which is needed for living united to a God.
No one simply dies in a state of mortal sin.
No they’re not. The state of a soul in Hell is more than jealousy. It’s an unfathomable mass of hatred. Hatred of God, of Satan, of his demons, of Hell, of everyone around them, and of themselves. Of everything and everyone.
And that soul is probably mad that God would not allow them another chance to repent like those sinners that went to Heaven.
The problem is that you don’t know what you are talking about. God calls out every second of one’s life; every waking moment God calls. Even at the last moment God gives every soul an opportunity to repent. The only souls who go to hell are those who refused to listen.
That soul did get a chance. In fact, they had every single chance possible. God is so merciful that we get every chance possible to repent. Those who die in mortal sin chose not to, and God respected their decision. The consequences of that decision is Hell.
They may have repented sometimes, I am talking about ordinary sinners here, not wicked serial killers or serial adulterers. Those who died in mortal sin simply died before they could get to confession, God could surely ask them if they would like to ask his forgiveness in the 0.5 seconds before their soul is separated from their body?
Mortal sin is not confined only to serial killers or adulterers. There is no such thing as an ordinary mortal sin.
That’s what the act of perfect contrition is for. But it has to be perfect contrition, out of love of God and not fear of Hell. It’s entirely possible to do, but I think I’d have difficulty with that personally. We should all bear that in mind that it is possible, and do it when we need to, but we should not rely on it. Instead we should work to always be in a state of grace so we don’t have to rely on a single act of perfect contrition.
You assume that they never had that chance. They did. Otherwise they would not be in Hell.
I am talking here about those seconds between the body being destroyed and actual death, could God not offer the sinner the chance of confession? what a wonderful thing it would be, to die a sudden death and instead of being faced with instant transfer to Hell you are faced with God saying "how about we talk about things a bit? of course this talking would be done before the soul is separated from the body.
So was I. That is what the perfect act of contrition is for.
What if God does not give me the time to make that act of contrition?
This may come as some surprise to you, but the church has not ever, in her entire 2,000 year history practiced what might be called “reverse canonization.” That is, a positive pronouncement than someone is in Hell. Hasn’t done it. There is no certainty to be had on this issue, least of all on the side of the one who wants to believe that “damned souls” are currently in Hell. On the other hand, how many times has the church practiced canonization? Quite a few…
It really isn’t. The best you could say is that it is a current teaching of many in the western Catholic Church, as is evidenced by the small passage devoted to it in the CCC. It isn’t even a universal teaching spread over time. The ancient church didn’t have many advocates of it. The contemporary church seems to have no end to the number of those who oppose infernalism. At best, you could say that the medieval church in the West consistently held this belief, following Augustine. That’s the historical record, my friend, there’s no sense arguing against it. But I know it’s comforting to tell oneself that what you believe has been a unanimous teaching of the Church…
I follow you. Actions have consequences, no doubt. The question before us is whether St Augustine was right—are there any actions that would entail neverending torment and torture, thwarting the will and love of God? The will of man thwarts the will and love of God?
That’s why it’s so important to go to confession frequently and not commit mortal sins.
God is not sitting there, waiting to GOTCHA some poor schlob with a mortal sin. Those in hell have set their hearts against God.
Very well said! Quite Balthasarian if you!!
I may as well live in a confessional to minimise my chances of dying without the sacrament being available.