How far we drift from the original topic after 180 responses. The fact seems to be, God would not, because He could not, write down, seal it up, and give me an envelope telling what I will order for supper tonight. I would simply read it and order something else. Seems rather odd that God knows the future but can’t write it down. Now it’s very likely that he can write, (remember the old testament temple walls and the 10 Commandments) so the only possible answer is He cannot know the future.
Yes God can know the future. You appear to assume that one will be capable of changing what God knows will happen.
How God could possibly prove that He is omniscient, has foreknowledge, then? Perhaps you have an answer to this question.
Well, I think I have said enough. No need to say that we are not talking about whether I can trick God but a paradoxical situation.
Must God prove He’s omniscient? Can He reasonably refuse to do so?
What power or force is greater than God, such that He has to answer to it, and therefore honor the request that He ‘proves’ Himself to us?
“Who was, and is, and is to come.” Revelation 1:4
I myself WAS yesterday, I myself IS today, and hopefully I IS to come to this thread on Monday.
I so don’t know how to answer this one. The Holy Fathers of the Church say He does know everything and every time I can manage to put my mind into this frame I find great joy. When I think by myself I also consider that He cannot know all our future actions because we have free will. The end of the world He definitely knows, because that is His decision not ours. And other future actions depending on the Angelic Army, the Saints, those who love and obey Him, these are definitely within His knowledge.
I just have to work harder in seeing it like the Holy Fathers saw it : He knows everything. A genuine state of revelation is definitely required.
Aah, but could you assert, “before Abraham came to be, I AM”…?
To your original question:
“Where were you when I founded the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its size? Surely you know? Who stretched out the measuring line for it?” (Job 38:4-5)
You do realize, I am being facetious. I think this whole thread is relatively stupid in the first place.
Yep. But I thought that your question “where does God say He’s outside of time in the Bible” was a real question. Use emoticons, man… we can’t read your expression as you’re typing at your PC!
But what if God refuses to answer questions on future events?
Could there be a limitation imposed by logic, on what God can reveal about the future to humans? Something like a logical contradiction of asking God to create a rock that He cannot lift or to create a square circle, or a perfectly round triangle, or to create a quadratic polynomial equation with rational coefficients that has no solution in the complex or real numbers?
I think that the properties that God has, omniscience, omnipotence, etc., only hold if they do not involve contradictions.
There is no logical limitation of asking Him anything. But it is very logical that He may give it to you or not. If He considers you don’t need it He will not give it to you and you might get angry with Him or just conclude He doesn’t exist.
This is the Medieval question of whether God has knowledge of future contingent things. Something contigent is possible in itself, meaning it could either occur/exist or not occur/exist. The dilemma comes in that if God has foreknowledge of all things which will come into being, would that make their coming into existence necessary? The answer, I believe, is in the autonomy of God’s power and will, for when exercising His power and will, bringing something into being, He could simultaneously, not bring that something into being, and this is within His knowledge.
He has a solution to everything and is able to resolve all our doubts.
No need to say that it seems to me that Catholic have different view on this problem, Vico for example think that God would say my future but I cannot do opposite of that and you think that God would reject since that leads to a contradiction.
How could He prove that He is omniscient then?
Yes, and there is a contradiction when you assume that God has foreknowledge.
you asked for Biblical references, and I gave you one. It’s understanding the context. It doesn’t make sense that God has always and will always exist. But if God existed in time that would imply that time created God, wouldn’t it? It implies a beginning to God, which we believe there was no beginning with God, because he always exists. If God existed in time then time came before God.
No one truly understands this concept except those with God in heaven perhaps. We understand that it is true but not how it is true.
here’s another verse I found, the one I was actually thinking of at that time but didn’t remember how it started.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. John 1:1