God in Old vs New


#1

Why does God seem different and more violent in the Old Testament compared to his loving nature in the New?


#2

According to Pope S. Leo the Great, the birth of our Lord is the birth of our peace. I do not say he tried to answer your question, but it is food for thought.

Pope Benedict XVI, in the apostolic exhortation, Verbum domini, spoke of those violent passages of the old testament as difficult to understand.


#3

The answer to your question is in this forum:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=855380

please leave a message there if it did help you or if you have any comments.:thumbsup:

Gloria

.


#4

For one thing, each “book” is indeed a separate book - some written hundreds or thousands of years apart. Different writers from different cultures, different styles, different views of God.


#5

As I have said before, this point confuses me.


#6

If you read the book of Revelation, we see that the “two” are closer together than one might imagine, and in fact are one in the same.


#7

Obviously a difficult problem…

My main idea on this is that it has much to do with how people perceived God at the time. We have to remember that while the Holy Spirit inspired Scripture, it was written by men and written for the times in which they lived. Thus, the manner of speech and the aspects of God that are expressed, reflect that.
In short it is not God that was different - but the men and how they expressed it.

A second point is that we need to recognize the very different world that existed BC. After the coming of Christ - the Holy Spirit was once again poured out on the whole world. Wisdom that had been only hidden and hinted at in the OT was made clear in the NT.
It would be as if the OT were written in a wold of dark greys and wintery cold - and suddenly the word became full of light and summer warmth and life. The writing would reflect that change.

Just some thoughts.

Peace
James


#8

It is strange the bible makes it very clear, many times, that God has been the same, is the same and will ALWAYS be the same and his nature cannot change. This really does not mesh well with what can been seen in the OT and NT though. Ive thought about this many times too. I guess it is just one of those things we are not meant to understand.


#9

yet we read the bible word for word…that bothers me


#10

Yes - it can be a problem. That is why I am so grateful for the blessing of the Church to help us. She is such a wonderful repository of learning on these things. I kind of feel sorry for those who try to understand Scripture on their own.

Nor for me - - I take the view that we start with the NT since that is the covenant we are under. Then the OT is simply supporting documents - a bibliography if you will - for the NT.

If I were to construct a bible for teaching - I would place the NT in front.I cannot think of anything more instructive to the new Christian than starting out with Matthew and moving forward from there.

That’s just my idea of how to go about it anyway…

Peace
James


#11

same God; same love. just a different place in time to tell the story He gives with Love.

Γένεσις
CATSS LXX World English Bible‎ / Wiki English Translation‏
1 ἐν ἀρχῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν Gn 1:1
¶In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

==========================================================================
By Malkiyahu:
^
(1:1) In the beginning The Supreme One made the heaven and the earth.
^
εν αρχη εποιησεν Ο Θεος τον ουρανον και την γην
^
In εν G1722 PREP] the beginning αρχη G746 N-DSF] made εποιησεν G4160 V-AAI-3S] The Ο G3588 T-NSM] Supreme One Θεος G2316 N-NSM] the τον G3588 T-ASM] heaven ουρανον G3772 N-ASM] and και G2532 CONJ] the την G3588 T-ASF] earth γην G1093 N-ASF]
^
From the Greek Septuagint (LXX)

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2 ἡ δὲ γῆ ἦν ἀόρατος καὶ ἀκατασκεύαστος καὶ σκότος ἐπάνω τῆς ἀβύσσου καὶ πνεῦμα θεοῦ ἐπεφέρετο ἐπάνω τοῦ ὕδατος Gn 1:2
Now the earth was (invisible) without form and undeveloped (unartificial). Darkness was on the surface of the deep. God’s Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters.

=======================================================
By Malkiyahu:
^
(1:2) Now the earth was invisible and unconstructed, and darkness was over the deep. And Spirit of Supreme One bore over the water.
^
η δε γη ην αορατος και ακατασκευαστος και σκοτος επανω της αβυσσου και Πνευμα Θεου επεφερετο επανω του υδατος
^
the η G3588 T-NSF] Now δε G1161 PRT] earth γη G1093 N-NSF] was ην G1510.7.3 V- IAI-3S] invisible αορατος G517 A-NSM] and και G2532 CONJ] unconstructed ακατασκευαστος G180.2 A-NSM] and και G2532 CONJ] darkness σκοτος G4655 N-NSN] was over επανω G1883 PREP] the της G3588 T-GSF] deep αβυσσου G12 N-GSF] And και G2532 CONJ] Spirit Πνευμα G4151 N-NSN] of Supreme One Θεου G2316 N-GSM] bore επεφερετο G2018 V-IMI-3S] over επαω G1883 PREP] the του G3588 T-GSN] water υδατος G5204 N-GSN]
^
From the Greek Septuagint (LXX)

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3 καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεός γενηθήτω φῶς καὶ ἐγένετο φῶς Gn 1:3
¶God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

==================================================================
By Malkiyahu:
^
(1:3) Then The Supreme One said, “Let there be light!” And there was light.
^
και ειπεν Ο Θεος γενηθητω φως και εγενετο φως
^
Then και G2532 CONJ] said ειπεν G2036 V-AAI-3S] The Ο G3588 T-NSM] Supreme One Θεος G2316 N-NSM] Let there be γενηθητω G1096 V-APD-3S] light φως G5457 N-NSN] And και G2532 CONJ] there was εγενετο G1096 V-AMI-3S] light φως G5457 N-NSN]
^
From the Greek Septuagint (LXX)

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4 καὶ εἶδεν ὁ θεὸς τὸ φῶς ὅτι καλόν καὶ διεχώρισεν ὁ θεὸς ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ φωτὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σκότους Gn 1:4
God saw the light, and saw that it was good. God divided the light from the darkness.

==================================================================
By Malkiyahu:
^
(1:4) And The Supreme One saw the light, that it was good, and The Supreme One separated thoroughly between the light and between the darkness.
^
και ειδεν Ο Θεος το φως οτι καλον και διεχωρισεν Ο Θεος ανα μεσον του φωτος και ανα μεσον του σκοτους
^
And και G2532 CONJ] saw ειδεν G1492 V-AAI-3S] The Ο G3588 T-NSM] Supreme One Θεος G2316 N-NSM] the το G3588 T-ASN] light φως G5457 N-ASN] that οτι G3754 CONJ] it was good καλον G2570 A-NSN] and και G2532 CONJ] separated thoroughly διεχωρισεν G1316 V-AAI-3S] The Ο G3588 T-NSM] Supreme One Θεος G2316 N-NSM] in ανα G303 PREP] between μεσον G3319 A-ASM] the του G3588 T-GSN] light φωτος G5457 N-GSN] and και G2532 CONJ] in ανα G303 PREP] between μεσον G3319 A-ASM] the του G3588 T-GSN] darkness σκοτους G4655 N-GSN]
^
From the Greek Septuagint (LXX)

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5 καὶ ἐκάλεσεν ὁ θεὸς τὸ φῶς ἡμέραν καὶ τὸ σκότος ἐκάλεσεν νύκτα καὶ ἐγένετο ἑσπέρα καὶ ἐγένετο πρωί ἡμέρα μία Gn 1:5
God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” There was evening and there was morning, one day.

===========================================================
By Malkiyahu:
^
(1:5) And called The Supreme One the light ‘Day’ and the darkness He called ‘Night.’ And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, day one.
^
και εκαλεσεν Ο Θεος το φως ημεραν και το σκοτος εκαλεσεν νυκτα και εγενετο εσπερα και εγενετο πρωι ημερα μια
^
And και G2532 CONJ] called εκαλεσεν G2564 V-AAI-3S] The Ο G3588 T-NSM] Supreme One Θεος G2316 N-NSM] the το G3588 T-ASN] light φως G5457 N-ASN] Day ημεραν G2250 N-ASF] and και G2532 CONJ] the το G3588 T-ASN] darkness σκοτος G4655 N-ASN] He called εκαλεσε G2564 V-AAI-3S] Night νυκτα G3571 N-ASF] And και G2532 CONJ] there came to be εγενετο G1096 V-AMI-3S] evening εσπερα G2073 N-NSF] and και G2532 CONJ] there came to be εγενετο G1096 V-AMI-3S] morning πρωι G4404 ADV] day ημερα G2250 N-NSF] one μια G1520 A-NSF]
^
From the Greek Septuagint (LXX)

cont …


#12

ΚΑΤΑ ΙΩΑΝΝΗΝ
Robinson-Pierpont 2005 World English Bible‎ / Wiki English Translation‏
1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος. Jn 1:1
¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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2 Οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν θεόν. Jn 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God.
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3 Πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἓν ὃ γέγονεν. Jn 1:3
All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made.
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4 Ἐν αὐτῷ ζωὴ ἦν, καὶ ἡ ζωὴ ἦν τὸ φῶς τῶν ἀνθρώπων, Jn 1:4
In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
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5 καὶ τὸ φῶς ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ φαίνει, καὶ ἡ σκοτία αὐτὸ οὐ κατέλαβεν. Jn 1:5
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake[a] it.
———
a Gk. καταλαμβάνω, to lay hold of or grasp; also of evening overtaking day and morning overtaking night (see Jn. 12:35; 1 Thes. 5:4).
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6 Ἐγένετο ἄνθρωπος ἀπεσταλμένος παρὰ θεοῦ, ὄνομα αὐτῷ Ἰωάννης. Jn 1:6
There came a man, sent from God, whose name was John.
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7 Οὗτος ἦλθεν εἰς μαρτυρίαν, ἵνα μαρτυρήσῃ περὶ τοῦ φωτός, ἵνα πάντες πιστεύσωσιν δι’ αὐτοῦ. Jn 1:7
The same came as a witness, that he might testify about the light, that all might believe through him.
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8 Οὐκ ἦν ἐκεῖνος τὸ φῶς, ἀλλ’ ἵνα μαρτυρήσῃ περὶ τοῦ φωτός. Jn 1:8
He was not the light, but was sent that he might testify about the light.
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9 Ἦν τὸ φῶς τὸ ἀληθινόν, ὃ φωτίζει πάντα ἄνθρωπον ἐρχόμενον εἰς τὸν κόσμον. Jn 1:9
The true light that enlightens everyone was coming into the world.
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10 Ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ ἦν, καὶ ὁ κόσμος δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ ὁ κόσμος αὐτὸν οὐκ ἔγνω. Jn 1:10
¶He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn’t recognize him.
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11 Εἰς τὰ ἴδια ἦλθεν, καὶ οἱ ἴδιοι αὐτὸν οὐ παρέλαβον. Jn 1:11
He came to his own, and those who were his own didn’t receive him.
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12 Ὅσοι δὲ ἔλαβον αὐτόν, ἔδωκεν αὐτοῖς ἐξουσίαν τέκνα θεοῦ γενέσθαι, τοῖς πιστεύουσιν εἰς τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ· Jn 1:12
But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God’s children, to those who believe in his name:
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13 οἳ οὐκ ἐξ αἱμάτων, οὐδὲ ἐκ θελήματος σαρκός, οὐδὲ ἐκ θελήματος ἀνδρός, ἀλλ’ ἐκ θεοῦ ἐγεννήθησαν. Jn 1:13
who were born not from blood, nor from the will of the flesh, nor from the will of man, but from God.
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14 Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο, καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν — καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός — πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας. Jn 1:14
The Word became flesh, and lived among us. We saw his glory, such glory as of the only born-in-kind Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.
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15 Ἰωάννης μαρτυρεῖ περὶ αὐτοῦ, καὶ κέκραγεν λέγων, Οὗτος ἦν ὃν εἶπον, Ὁ ὀπίσω μου ἐρχόμενος ἔμπροσθέν μου γέγονεν· ὅτι πρῶτός μου ἦν. Jn 1:15
John testified about him. He cried out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me, for he was before me.’”
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16 { Καὶ ἐκ :diamonds: Ὅτι ἐκ } τοῦ πληρώματος αὐτοῦ ἡμεῖς πάντες ἐλάβομεν, καὶ χάριν ἀντὶ χάριτος.
———
RP: Καὶ ἐκ :diamonds: NA/UBS: Ὅτι ἐκ
Jn 1:16
From his fullness we all received grace upon grace.
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17 Ὅτι ὁ νόμος διὰ { Μωσέως :diamonds: Μωϋσέως } ἐδόθη, ἡ χάρις καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια διὰ Ἰησοῦ χριστοῦ ἐγένετο.
———
RP: Μωσέως :diamonds: NA/UBS: Μωϋσέως
Jn 1:17
For the law was given through Moses. Grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
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18 Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· { ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός :diamonds: μονογενὴς θεὸς }, ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρός, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο.
———
RP: ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός :diamonds: NA/UBS: μονογενὴς θεὸς
Jn 1:18
No one has seen God at any time. The only born-in-kind Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

hope this helps

God bless


#13

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