God made pre-humans into people, Vatican newspaper says


#1

This may be of some interest:

While apes evolved naturally into pre-human creatures, it was the will and desire of God that turned them into humans, an article in the Vatican newspaper said.

“The formation of human beings necessitated a particular contribution by God, though it remains that their emergence was brought about by natural causes” of evolution, it said.

The article, published in the May 5-6 edition of L’Osservatore Romano, was written by Italian evolutionary biologist Fiorenzo Facchini.

Source: catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0802496.htm

rossum


#2

Just for clarity, the Vatican newspaper didn’t “say” it. Fiorenzo Facchini did.


#3

? what is the Vatican view on evolution.


#4
  1. Catholics are not obliged to either believe or disbelieve in evolution (although the Church favors evolution, since we do not reject science.)

  2. Catholics may not hold that the human soul evolved. (that’s what the cited article says.)

  3. All humans are desceneded from a particular pair of first humans (and science agrees.)


#5

I do not really want to get this ball rolling, but does “science agree” on point 3?

That is the way it appears to me, but I see folks arguing here frequently that there can be no single set of parents for the human race.

If I recall the basis for the objection against “Adam and Eve” hinges on an assumed rate of genetic mutation and an assumed date for when “man” first appeared but this is only vague recollection.

Thanks in advance for pointing me towards the right info.

Chuck


#6

How can they favor evolution, it contradicts scripture…doesn’t it?


#7

read the whole article, the person quoted, who is NOT a Vatican spokesperson in any sense of the word, did not say humans evolved from apes, he simply mentioned evolution w/o saying specifically where we came from. One egregious error in a headline and review is bad enough but two means somebody needs to go back to Remedial Journalism Class.


#8

I wouldn’t rely on CNS. They are out of synch with the Magisterium more often than not.


#9

Mitochrondrial DNA analysis indicates all human descend from a single mother. Later analysis indicates a single common male ancestor, as well.


#10

e
Catholics are not bound to a literal interpretation. The story of the Creation is an allegory, suitable for the audience at the time it was composed.

Note that Genesis does not mention thermonuclear energy, quarks, or many other things that we know make up the universe.


#11

Regardless of if the theory of evolution can work with our faith or not…the theory itself still has many holes that cannot be filled.

One of the most obvious is the lack of evolutionary changes in the Coelocanth, which is a lobed-finned fish that was thought to have gone extinct 65 million years ago. If anything were to have evolved within that 65 million year time period, it would have been it, wouldn’t you say?

Of course there are perhaps greater and more persuasive arguments to be made. I am not a scientist after all.

The theory of Micro-evolution is still entirelly possible. All creatures adapt to their environments…However, the idea of human-kind stemming from an amphibious reptile is…debatable

I suppose we’ll never know for sure…but perhaps that is the point. If we’re supposed to act on faith…then why would God just lay it all out for us to know?


#12

No, and the theory of evolution doesn’t say that, either.

Evolution is how God created life. The *theory of evolution *is man’s explanation of how He did it.

The theory of evolution says evolution occurs under environmental pressure. Many species (not just the Coelacanth) have niches where there has been little or no evolutionary pressure. The theory of evolution says such species will not evolve – and that’s exactly what we see with those species.


#13

It doesn’t indicate that all humanity descended from a single woman, it only indicates that all living humans have a single woman has an ancestor. Mitochondrial Eve may have been a part of a larger human population whose descendants have since died out.


#14

I would not expect them to be in sync with the magesterium, but I would hold them to high standards of journalism, which is my complaint, they simply got it wrong from start to finish, who said it, what he said, with what authority. why even bother writing a news article if you can’t get its basic elements right?


#15

Silly comparison, unrelated and without substance or merit…


#16

Perhaps a more complete list may be helpful:

WHAT CATHOLICS MUST BELIEVE ABOUT CREATION

Magisterium of the Catholic Church has defined what Catholics must believe about the history of creation:

**–The creation by God of all things at the beginning of time
–The special creation by God of man
–Formation of woman from man
–Unity of the human race **
–The original happiness of our first parents in a state of justice
–The divine command laid upon man by God to prove obedience
–Transgression of that command at the instigation of the devil in the form of a serpent
–The fall of our original parents from their primitive state of innocence.
–The promise of a future redeemer

*Humanae Generis, *Pope Pius XII [also see: Dr. S. Hahn: Genesis 1-22: *The Covenant as a Family Affair

; Pope Pius X: Pascendi Dominici Gregis, Sept. 8, 1907].

The Catholic Church rejects the theory that the first chapters of Genesis are pure myth. For what the catechism teaches about creation see the Catechism of the Catholic Church #s 198, 279-327.
agapebiblestudy.com/documents/What%20Catholics%20believe%20about%20Creation.htm


#17

Possibly the teaching has changed since then because I know the Church does not totally reject evolution. If one is to believe woman cam from man, in a literal sense and stated in Scripture, one could certainly not believe in evolution.

But, if one believes that the body, the creature, the human animal evolved under God’s direction and that God created the spirit, and that the spirit of woman was created from the man’s, this follows with the theory of evolution After all, the human animal is just that, an animal. It is the spirit which makes use truely human and what seperates us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

In short, a Catholic must believe that the spirit was created by God and did not evolve. A Catholic may believe that the body did evolve, of course with direction from the Creator.

One other point about the science; It is often thought that mitochondrial DNA research has shown that woman started with one person. This is not true. It only shows that today’s humans are all desendents of this one woman. She was probably one of many women at the time. But, my belief is that God gave a spirit to only this one woman and this is where we all came from.


#18

Evolution does indeed have many holes, which is why scientists are still working on it. Whether or not those holes will be filled is a different question. Christianity has many holes that will never be filled - what was the name of Seth’s wife for example - yet that does not invalidate Christianity. “We are to find God in what we know, not in what we do not know; God wants us to realize his presence, not in unsolved problems but in those that are solved” - Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

One of the most obvious is the lack of evolutionary changes in the Coelocanth, which is a lobed-finned fish that was thought to have gone extinct 65 million years ago. If anything were to have evolved within that 65 million year time period, it would have been it, wouldn’t you say?

Coelacanths are not a single species but a group of species. We know of about 120 fossil species and two modern species. The fossil species were small, about 30 cm, and lived in shallow water. Modern Coelacanths are large, about 150-200 cm, and live in very deep water. They did evolve; none of the fossil species match modern examples. They are interesting because they were thought to be extinct and they are close to the type of fish from which land tetrapods evolved. Coelacanths have fins on little stumps. Those stumps developed into our arms and legs.

The theory of Micro-evolution is still entirelly possible. All creatures adapt to their environments…However, the idea of human-kind stemming from an amphibious reptile is…debatable

You may debate it, but our evolution from the tetrapod amphibians is supported by the evidence.

I suppose we’ll never know for sure…but perhaps that is the point. If we’re supposed to act on faith…then why would God just lay it all out for us to know?

God did lay it out in the rocks of the earth and in our DNA. If we look for the evidence then we can find it.

rossum


#19

Correct. The woman, ‘Mitochondrial Eve’, lived about 140,000 years ago and the man, ‘Y Chromosome Adam’, lived about 60,000 years ago. The two never met.

rossum


#20

And what factors go into estimating these unknown dates?

Chuck


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