God or no God

If a person doesn’t believe in God, then they do not believe in any concept of Heaven. If they do not believe in Heaven then they can’t say they feel like they are in Hell because Hell being the opposite of Heaven in God terms. So much an atheist don’t realise by saying they don’t believe there is a God ?
your thoughts… :blush:

I have to wonder why atheists ask if we believers think they will go to heaven or hell. If there isn’t either one, then why should they care what we think about their supposed eternal destiny?

Of course, it’s just an effort to make points about how intolerant believers are because they think we’ll automatically say they’re going to hell. They know perfectly well that its a nonsensical question considering their beliefs, or should I say non-beliefs. :shrug:

“I feel like I’m in hell” is often use as an idiom, not a literal statement. Often referring to an intractable problem or emotional turmoil (see Merriam Webster’s definition 2). The idiom doesn’t express whether the person holds a literal concept of hell or what it may be if the person does hold such a concept.

There was a problem in my field of work (computer related) called DLL Hell. Some one taking the term to literally mean a “place” in of separation from God (which I think is an element of the Catholic concept of hell) might think that God has set aside a place in the afterlife for Microsoft binaries.

Indeed, of course, without a religious reference it wouldn’t make any sense. :wink:

There was a problem in my field of work (computer related) called DLL Hell. Some one taking the term to literally mean a “place” in of separation from God (which I think is an element of the Catholic concept of hell) might think that God has set aside a place in the afterlife for Microsoft binaries.

My computer tech dh would certainly agree with you here. :stuck_out_tongue:

it doesnt work that way. The argument is illogical.
Any concept of God cannot be applied to the Atheists, because they themselves do not believe in God existence.

The religious references are needed to explain the etymology, but not necessarily what one’s intended usage is. Similar to how some one can make references to being in Nirvana, that Karma has paid some one back, or the word “Friday” without it indicating that one “believes in” Buddhism, Hinduism, the Noble Eight Fold Path, or the Anglo-Saxon goddess of sexuality and fertility.

Actually, by a sheer act of the will, they chose to believe that God does not exist. It is quite different.

By Jove*, I’m glad some one else understands!

    • No, I don’t believe that the roman god Jupiter exists. Or do I?..

Which are all religious references, aren’t they? I never specified Christianity. :slight_smile:

There is God, The God of love and of the whole Universe. Therefore every human beings have the ability to know this Loving God and of the whole Universe.

However, an atheist is a human being. You can help your atheist friend if you are not and tell your friend that there is God, just as there is his being.

The words have religious etymologies (I specifically chose words that met this criteria). But the OP ask if the use of words that can be associated with God indicate that one believes in that God. It doesn’t. I chose words with etymologies from outside of Christianity to provide a perspective that is a bit further away from the one in which most of the readers of this thread live.

I don’t think that when some one uses the word “Friday” or one of many other words that the person using the word holds its religious etymology as true (if I find some one that does I might find that to be a very interesting person!). But to use the word “hell” to indicate that some one holds onto an afterlife without holding the other words as indications that some one believes that it’s etymology is true may be an instance of special pleading.

This is true. My only point being that the expressions wouldn’t exist without a religion that gave them to us, whether we know the origins or not.

As for Friday, I happen to one of those people who know the origins of the word. I love mythologies. I find they teach me a great deal about us humans. :slight_smile:

That’s not actually quite true. Some people identify as atheist because they don’t believe in God, but that’s not to say that they believe God definitely doesn’t exist. There’s a clear difference between the two things. Of course, lots of people would consider such people to be agnostics, and I guess that’s why you get terms like ‘agnostic-atheist’. Belief isn’t a choice, anyway. If an atheist were to secretly believe in a god, then they wouldn’t be an atheist. I could suddenly claim to be a devout Catholic and live the lifestyle of a Catholic, but that wouldn’t mean I actually believed in God.

Anyway, as others have said the phrase “I’m in Hell” is just a figure of speech. I don’t understand why it would matter if an atheist were to use it.

It’s inevitable that the atheist is interested in whether as an atheist he can go to hell. After all, the atheist is probably unsure that atheism is absolutely true. He wants to know what we think his chances are if he doesn’t believe. Can he be held accountable for sinning if he doesn’t believe in sin? Does he get a free pass to heaven claiming invincible ignorance of both heaven and hell? Whatever his reason for asking what we think of his chances, he is right to ask. And we are right to answer because we are, after all, our brother’s keeper.

I have answered, but then comes the inevitable arguments about whether or not God has the right to judge them and blah, blah, blah. There are times when it’s best not to cast ones pearls before the swine, too. If they are so sure there’s no God let them find out for certain on their death beds. They certainly don’t want to really know the answer in the here and now or they wouldn’t be asking questions they really don’t want answered.

That’s fine. That’s not something I am arguing for or against (as it doesn’t seem to impact the OP).

I’d say atheism originates in the intellect. If you don’t believe in God or if you lack a belief in God, there is nothing to will. I don’t really see atheism as a choice in all instances though.

Well Windows and MFC are certainly the work of Satan. I’ve even seen his sweating imp dancing around on stage (looking at you Mr. Ballmer). If Microsoft isn’t Hell its “Hell Adjacent”. :stuck_out_tongue:

You didn’t hear? He announced his forthcoming resignation as CEO of hell.

I call things the way they are, without re-defining terms or coining new ones. As for truth, it doesn’t come in gradations: a proposition is either true or false.

*Atheism *is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities, or the belief that there are no deities. Since we cannot prove that God does not exist, this translates to an act not of reason, but of will.

What is this act of the will?

The act of believing on a given proposition.

What is that proposition?

“There is no God.”

This position is characterized by a peculiar sense of pride in the human being, in the human mind, although interestingly it is necessarily accompanied by materialistic and relativistic beliefs that do not confer much honor upon the human being, but rather see him as some sort of superior mammal, who randomly came into being and whose existence has no purpose besides doing what one wants (possibly in such a way that maximum well-being for himself is achieved without hindering the society and ecosystem that provides that well-being, which, as Hobbes shows, leads inexorably to the state of nature).

An agnostic, instead, acts out of reason: he is open to the possibility that there may be a God, but he perceives that he does not know whether this proposition, namely “there is a God”, holds true or false, and he, by an act of reason, calls himself an agnostic, from the Greek “to not know”. It is also a position that requires a certain degree of humbleness.

To an agnostic one can show the evidence available to reason alone that hint with almost certainty to the existence of an Intelligent Creator - some incredibly complex in their philosophy, others even too simplistic. With an agnostic one can discuss the *reasonableness *of some of the major stumbling blocks of Christianity, such as miracles, the Resurrection, the visible authoritative Church, the states of heaven and hell (mind you, I did not say one can convince him of their truthfulness, only that one can discuss with them whether these things are, through reason alone, sound and logical).

These things are quickly dismissed by those who call themselves atheist, not by an act of reason which requires engaging intellectual disquisition until the proposition or argument is shown to be unsound or illogic, but by a mere act of will, simply refusing to consider the proposition or arguments.

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