god's ideas


#1

I am speaking in the language of the Summa here. Are the ideas that go through God’s mind that St. Thomas spoke about us and creation? Do they give life to us or am I misunderstanding something here.

Bill


#2

Have you read the Catechism?

Might clear up a few issues vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM


#3

[quote="billcu1, post:1, topic:298364"]
I am speaking in the language of the Summa here. Are the ideas that go through God's mind that St. Thomas spoke about us and creation? Do they give life to us or am I misunderstanding something here.

Bill

[/quote]

Bill:

I don't think so. I think God thinks about himself, his Son, and their Love which is productive of the Holy Spirit. I think that if God had not the capability of knowing each and every one of us, he would not have created us. Our greatest fortune is that He, in fact, does have that capability.

God is often analogically referred to as an "artist." It would appear that he is not quite finished with his work. His thoughts might be the finishing touches to this masterpiece. But, even then, we are not even gnats on elephant's patootie.

God bless,
jd


#4

[quote="Warandpeace, post:2, topic:298364"]
Have you read the Catechism?

Might clear up a few issues vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

[/quote]

A little bit. I asked my priest about it he says he only uses it as a reference work.


#5

I’m going to admit I am unclear about your actual question and beg your patience with me while I try to figure it out.


#6

God has One Idea, in the Person of the Son of God. This Idea includes everything knowable.

Think of a car. You know it has tires, a transmission, steering wheel, engine, and so on, but when you think of a car you don't think of the list of parts one by one. They are all included in your idea of car.

So it is with God to an infinitely greater degree. Because if we said God had a number of ideas we'd have to say he has parts, which is impossible.


#7

[quote="StrawberryJam, post:5, topic:298364"]
I'm going to admit I am unclear about your actual question and beg your patience with me while I try to figure it out.

[/quote]

God has his own essence that gives life to us but it's not what powers himself. Do we exist because we are one of god's ideas?


#8

If God is omniscient, He cannot have ideas.

An idea is a new thought or concept, not available to one who knows all things and thoughts.


#9

[quote="greylorn, post:8, topic:298364"]
If God is omniscient, He cannot have ideas.

An idea is a new thought or concept, not available to one who knows all things and thoughts.

[/quote]

newadvent.org/summa/1015.htm

Aquinas says he has ideas.:shrug:


#10

[quote="billcu1, post:9, topic:298364"]
newadvent.org/summa/1015.htm

Aquinas says he has ideas.:shrug:

[/quote]

Yes God has " ideas. " at least according to Thomas. He describes every aspect of the created univers as being first an " Idea " in the Divine Inetllect. But remember, while St. Thomas was a Saint and a very great intellect and philosopher, neither his philosophy nor anyone else's has been canonized - as one Pope famously quipped. What we have to do is believe what the Church teaches. Go back to the Catechism and start in Part One, Section Two, Article 1 and go from there and you should learn a lot. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


#11

[quote="Linusthe2nd, post:10, topic:298364"]
Yes God has " ideas. " at least according to Thomas. He describes every aspect of the created univers as being first an " Idea " in the Divine Inetllect. But remember, while St. Thomas was a Saint and a very great intellect and philosopher, neither his philosophy nor anyone else's has been canonized - as one Pope famously quipped. What we have to do is believe what the Church teaches. Go back to the Catechism and start in Part One, Section Two, Article 1 and go from there and you should learn a lot. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[/quote]

I am afraid to buy the latest catechism because I have been told they change every so often. I know it's online like the summa. The Summa really hits my questions to the spot. Has the catechism been "cannonized" I guess you mean like the NT books. I have read that Aquinas levitated at some point and I've always considered him inspired. Things change so much in the church. All it seems we can depend on is the sacraments. And reconcilliation and how often it was received has changed much over the centuries. The only sacremental I use is holy water. Btw I have Teresa of Avila's interior castle and the other popular book she wrote. I haven't read them but is she as good as St. Thomas? I understand faith and reason go hand in hand but faith is above reason.


#12

[quote="billcu1, post:11, topic:298364"]
I am afraid to buy the latest catechism because I have been told they change every so often. I know it's online like the summa. The Summa really hits my questions to the spot. Has the catechism been "cannonized" I guess you mean like the NT books. I have read that Aquinas levitated at some point and I've always considered him inspired. Things change so much in the church. All it seems we can depend on is the sacraments. And reconcilliation and how often it was received has changed much over the centuries. The only sacremental I use is holy water. Btw I have Teresa of Avila's interior castle and the other popular book she wrote. I haven't read them but is she as good as St. Thomas? I understand faith and reason go hand in hand but faith is above reason.

[/quote]

Some of what you say is incorrect. Catholic teaching or doctrine has been the same since the time of Christ. However these teachings were not all fully understood at once but under the guidance of the Holy Spirit have been more fully understood over the centuries. The Catechisms contain the basics but not all doctrine or teaching which must be believed. We can go into that point more fully if you want but I think it should come under another thread. The current Catechism is structurally different than the one I grew up with but the basic content is the same. So I would just have to say that the only difference in Catechisms in the last 150 years or so is the structure, not the content.

There is a new Catechism geared to young people. But it is based on the bigger Catechism. Both are correct, just a different approach.

The difference between the Philosophy of St Thomas or St Augustine and the Catechism is that one does not have to believe all of what St Thomas said is true, though much, perhaps most of it is true. We only have to believe it if we are absolutely certain that what he taught is true and as long as it does not contradict what the Catechism teaches or what the Church teaches elsewhere. But we do have to believe what the Catechism teaches to be Catholics in good standing.

St. Teresa and St. Thomas were both great Saints and both Doctors of the Church. I'm not exactly sure how to explain the difference except I think St Teresa would be regarded more as a Doctor of Spirituality and Thomas as a Doctor of Philosophy.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


#13

I was reading a 1975 book entitle “A catholic catechism” it said a long time ago few people were going to mass because they felt they had mortally sinned and that led to deathbed confessions. People were waiting until their death bed to confess.


#14

[quote="billcu1, post:13, topic:298364"]
I was reading a 1975 book entitle "A catholic catechism" it said a long time ago few people were going to mass because they felt they had mortally sinned and that led to deathbed confessions. People were waiting until their death bed to confess.

[/quote]

That is so sad. We need God's grace NOW.


#15

[quote="billcu1, post:7, topic:298364"]
God has his own essence that gives life to us but it's not what powers himself. Do we exist because we are one of god's ideas?

[/quote]

Does God need love or power?
Our existance is not tied to either thing IMHO.


#16

Kindly have the courtesy to speak for yourself, or remain silent. I do not reply to web links.


#17

Think about that.


#18

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