God's Judgement


#1

My Protestant friend were talking about salvation…again. I said God will judge us when we die to see if we merit heaven. He said that God will only judge those who are not Christians and that its in the bible and such.

Can somebody help me refute this? Preferrably with bible verses and explaination of them cuz I’m not sure how to do that.

Thanks!


#2

Actually, the Catechism has lots of verses (cited in the footnotes) regarding this:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm#I

Be sure to read the whole page. Here’s an example:

1038 The resurrection of all the dead, "of both the just and the unjust,"623 will precede the Last Judgment. This will be "the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man’s] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment."624 Then Christ will come "in his glory, and all the angels with him. . . . Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. . . . And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."625

Here’s some other info that might be helpful:
Judged According to Deeds
Rom 2:2-8 - eternal life by perseverance in good works
2Cor 5:10 - recompense accord to what did in body
2Cor 11:15 - their end will correspond to their deeds
1Pet 1:17 - God judges impartially according to one’s works
Rev 20:12-13 - dead judged according to their deeds
Col 3:24-25 - will receive due payment for whatever you do

Assurance of Salvation?
Mt 7:21 - not everyone saying “Lord, Lord” will inherit
Mt 24:13 - those who persevere to the end will be saved
Rom 11:22 - remain in his kindness or you will be cut off
Phil 2:12 - work out your salvation in fear and trembling
1Cor 9:27 - drive body for fear of being disqualified
1Cor 10:11-12 - those thinking they are secure may fall
Gal 5:4 - separated from Christ, you’ve fallen from grace
2Tim 2:11-13 - must hold out to the end to reign with Christ
Hb 6:4-6 - describes sharers in Holy Spirit who then fall away
Heb 10:26-27 - if sin after receiving truth, judgment remains
source: geocities.com/thecatholicconvert/biblecheatsheet.html


#3

[quote=MeOnly]My Protestant friend were talking about salvation…again. I said God will judge us when we die to see if we merit heaven. He said that God will only judge those who are not Christians and that its in the bible and such.

Can somebody help me refute this? Preferrably with bible verses and explaination of them cuz I’m not sure how to do that.

Thanks!
[/quote]

My guess is your friend is saying this because he believes all Christians will be raptured prior to the final judgement. Evangelical friends of mine interpret the final judgement in Matthew 25:31-46 as only applying to those ‘left behind’ after Christians are raptured. They say this because the people in Matthew 25 are being judged by Christ according to their works, and they do not believe Christians are judged according to works. I know this doesn’t give you the scripture verses to refute it (I’m sure someone else can do that better than me), but it gives you an idea of what he believes if its’s similar to what I have heard from my evangelical friends.


#4

[quote=DeFide]Judged According to Deeds
Rom 2:2-8 - eternal life by perseverance in good works
2Cor 5:10 - recompense accord to what did in body
2Cor 11:15 - their end will correspond to their deeds
1Pet 1:17 - God judges impartially according to one’s works
Rev 20:12-13 - dead judged according to their deeds
Col 3:24-25 - will receive due payment for whatever you do

Assurance of Salvation?
Mt 7:21 - not everyone saying “Lord, Lord” will inherit
Mt 24:13 - those who persevere to the end will be saved
Rom 11:22 - remain in his kindness or you will be cut off
Phil 2:12 - work out your salvation in fear and trembling
1Cor 9:27 - drive body for fear of being disqualified
1Cor 10:11-12 - those thinking they are secure may fall
Gal 5:4 - separated from Christ, you’ve fallen from grace
2Tim 2:11-13 - must hold out to the end to reign with Christ
Hb 6:4-6 - describes sharers in Holy Spirit who then fall away
Heb 10:26-27 - if sin after receiving truth, judgment remains
[/quote]

Those are some good Bible verses. And definitely plenty to “build a case” from.


#5

Hi MeOnly,

Quote: “My Protestant friend were talking about salvation…again. I said God will judge us when we die to see if we merit heaven. He said that God will only judge those who are not Christians and that its in the bible and such.
Can somebody help me refute this? Preferrably with bible verses and explaination of them cuz I’m not sure how to do that.“
My comment: This is the “once saved, always saved” argument. This is not biblical. This has to do with Justification and, ultimately, Predestination and our different views on them. This teaching also has to do with justification being a one-time event which is incorrect. Justification is a process.Here are a few verses to bring out the fact that once saved, always saved is not correct:
Heb 9:27 says, “As it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgement.” This means “All” men, not just unbelievers.
Rom 2:6-7 says, “Who (God) will render to every man according to his works. to them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life.” Judged by our works. v8 – “Obey” not the truth. Luther taught obedience had nothing to do with your salvation. This proves Faith & Obedience are necessary for salvation.
[size=2][size=2]I John 1:6-9 says “[/size]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins…” It says “IF” we confess our sins. v6 says that if we sin and say we have fellowship with God, we are a liar. This shows we must also confess all our sins to obtain salvation.[/size]
[size=2][size=2]I Cor 6:9-10 says, “…Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effiminate, nor liars…shall posses the kingdom of God.” (also see Eph 5:5,Apoc 21:8) [/size][/size][size=2]Rom 2:13 says, “For not the hearers of the law are just before God: but the doers of the law ‘shall be justified’.” You must be “doers”, not justified by Faith alone. [/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2]Rom 11:22, “See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards ‘them indeed that are fallen, the severity’; but ‘towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness’. [/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2]otherwise ‘thou also shalt be cut off ’.” You can be cut off.[/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]2 Tim 2:12, “If we suffer, we shall also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us.” [/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Justification is a Process:[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Rom 6:16 “Obedience unto Justification.” Future tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Gal 5:4-5 " …Hope of Justification…” Future tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Rom 5:1 " Being Justified therefore by Faith…” Past tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Rom 3:24 " Being Justified freely by his grace…" Present tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Gal 2:17 " But if while we seek to be Justified…" Future tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Rom 10:9 " Thou shalt be saved." Future tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Phil 2:12 Paul says “…With fear and trembling work out your salvation.” Future tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Sanctification is a process.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Heb 10:14 “…them that are (being) sanctified.” Present tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]I Cor 6:11 “…but you are sanctified…” Past tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]I Thess 5:23 “…and may the God of peace himself sanctify you in all things.” Future tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Salvation is also a process:[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Eph 2:8-9 “…for by grace you are saved…” Past tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]I Cor 1:18 " To them that are (being) saved." Present tense.[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]Matt 10:22 “…He shall be saved…” Future tense.
[/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2][size=2]There are so many more but notice: These epistles were written to the CHURCH, ie, Christians, not unbelievers. [/size][/size][/size][/size][/size][/size]

[/size][size=2][size=2]May God bless,[/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2][/size][/size]
[size=2][size=2]James224
[/size][/size]


#6

I was reading today in one of the church father’s writings that all souls go to hades and are confined there until the great judgment day. Those were the words of Tertullian in 250 AD. :thumbsup:


#7

Thank you DeFide & James224 for your apologetic references. These will help many people on this forum as the argument is commonplace! Again, thank you!!!

Bob


#8

I’m sorry I should have made my Protestant friends position more clear…he was defending “once saved always saved”.

Thank you for your help! But I am getting a little confused…After reading some other posts and this one, there is more than one judgement? I’ve seen Final Judgement, Last Judgement, Particular Judgement. Was I wrong to believe that a person lives a life on earth, dies then is judged by God and sent to Heaven or Hell (or Purgatory) and thats it? Or is there more?


#9

We will be judged upon death and we will then be dispatched to the appropriate place. A general judgment will also occur at the end of time. The general judgment will reveal all that was done by everyone and the implications of our actions for good or ill will be known. The implications of our actions could be manifold and the importance of doing God’s will be made even more clear.


#10

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