I don’t disagree, but that doesn’t make the claims that “God is good” any more coherent. The evidence just does not match the claim.
This last comment just shows really you haven’t thought about the issue…I think its best rather than attack others beliefs to actually look into them with some intellectual honesty.
I have thought about the issue - it’s really not a difficult thing to consider. Replace “God” with a human being. That human being perpetrates the same acts - slavery, genocide, infanticide, rape etc. That human allows acts that kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people a year, although it is in his power to prevent these tragedies.
Is that human being good? If not, why is God good?
Really, this is not a difficult concept. Explain how a good, omnipotent, omniscient god allows this to happen. Without recourse to special pleading.
I think that your reasoning is problematic for a number of reasons and you are not quite getting my question anyway.
I am NOT asking about what makes an action morally good. I am quite certain that without the standard of God there can be no objective morality.
But of course, there is no objective morality. That’s another problem. Morality, in the sense of “acceptable behaviour” (unless you mean something else?), has demonstrably changed throughout history. Moreover, the acts displayed by God in the OT are not considered moral today. So are we actually *less *moral now, because we don’t keep slaves, beat and rape women, and murder infants - all the things that your reputedly moral God used to do? Because if God begat objective morality, then how do you answer the following questions?
- Why has morality changed; and why does it continue to change?
- What is the objective morality?
- How can you demonstrate the source of this objective morality (if indeed you can answer question 2)?
- If God is the source of objective (good) morality, why did he commit such unspeakable acts?
- If you’re able to answer question 4 - what’s your rationale?
If you can answer all these questions without recourse to speculation, “revelation,” or special pleading, then you may have a case.
Further, this has nothing to do with the Old Testament.
I think it does if you’re making a claim that objective morality came from God, when the OT is quite clear about the acts that God committed. Unless you’re conceding that the OT is not an accurate record of fact.
The question is hard to word exactly but its more just a questioning of what exactly is meant by God’s love or something like that…is it morally good? can God be morally good even if there is none above Him? (iow does that apply to God?)
Okay - then are you talking about Euthyphro? Or are you asking how someone can be morally good if they set their own arbitrary morality? Apologies if I’m misunderstanding.
Or what about perfect contrition…How do I learn to love God for His own sake? I guess what exactly is the object of my love in that case?
That is also a problem, since no clear definition of God exists.
These are pretty deep philosophical questions, I do not know if there is 1 answer and I thank everyone who has participated in the conversation and added helpful insights so far
Precisely because they are philosophical questions, there is no right answer.
I’m glad you found my insights helpful