God's plan, destiny and free will

do they fit together?

They fit together if “destiny” is not interpreted as imposed but self-imposed. :slight_smile:

Is self imposed truly self imposed?

Why not? To deny that it is possible is to impose limits on omnipotence!

Think of it as having multiple paths to follow. Each path has a destination and God knows what each is if taken. He has one brightly lite, with an easy path, which contains his word and truth leading to your own salvation, but you have the free will to take it or not. You can take another path and end up with that destiny. In God’s love and in our free will, we can also change paths, to His, so to change our destiny.

Deacon Frank

Did God hardening the hearts of Pharoah and all the Kings Joshua killed impose on their free will to demonstrate HIS wrath? Did God impose on the Romans and Pontius Pilate to crucify Christ for our sins as part of His plan? Did God impose on the freewill of Doubting Thomas and Saul-Paul in Damascus through “seeing” rather than faith? Will we have free will in heaven to decide if we want to worship or not or are we heavenly robots? I would not have complete “bliss” knowing a loved non-Christian is burning in Hell for the non-violent crime of non-belief.

God’s omniscience would lead HIM to know what it would take to make one believe as He did to Doubting Thomas and Saul-Paul. So, if He loves us and wants to save us, He would do that. No?

No, No, No, Yes/no, A non-Christian would not suffer the fires of hell if they have lived thier live according to good morals and conscience as given to each person from God.
But a person who used thier free will not to believe in God in this life time cannot expect that thier wishes and belief would not be honored by God in the afterlife. THey would experiance the result of thier non belief, not because of God, but from thier own decisions.

Deacon Frank

No! God didn’t make them believe. They could have changed their mind afterwards.

God offers opportunities to everyone but in different ways. If He appeared to everyone we would lose our power to choose what to believe and how to live.

I think so. God did give us free will, but because God’s omnipotent, he already knows what we are going to choose and the future, so he does have an overall plan.

Christ was destined to be the messiah, and it was predicted by the prophets.

We have free will, too, though. God just works free will into the plan, because he’s that smart. He’s a genius!

So Thomas and Paul lost their power to choose because of their evidential revelations? Does God love them more than me?

Does one have heavenly freewill to change their mind in heaven?

I think you mean Omniscience. We are slaves to His omniscience if He has a predetermined plan. How is that freewill?

This does not follow. It is an invalid argument. His plan does not make us slaves.
A. He has a plan
B. We have freewill based on the many who choose not to follow his plan.
C. We are not slaves to His plan. QED

How is that freewill?

See above

Are you saying a non-Christian who lives a good life but never took the time to search for God will get in but a former Chrisitian who spent years using their freewill studying the bible, church teaching, science and philosophy and reached a conclusion that the Christian God most likely does not exist is damned to hell because he couldn’t get himself to believe? That doesn’t seem like a just God.

Also, dont these New Testament passages (Matthew 25, John 3, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, Revelation 21:8) indicate that Hell awaits the non-believer despite a good moral and conscience life?


Are the Romans and Pontius Pilate in heaven since they followed God’s plan to have Himself crucified? How do you know if you are choosing God’s plan and not Satan’s? If a child is accidental drowning, should I save the child or is that part of God’s plan for that child to die and go to heaven? And how do you know it’s not Satan controlling your thoughts to SAVE the child to go against God’s plan? It appears you are making your own moral judgement, Bravo!

Those who have known the truth and have turned away have a greater burden to bear.
To say God is not just, because one rejects the gift of faith is the burden of the individual.
Jesus talks a number of times of the final judgement and states that those who do the father’s will are saved and those who do not are condemned. Yes God is just, he has told you what will happen if you reject him, over and over again. You want to call God unjust because you want to live your life as you please without him, reject him and then go it’s unfair when you are not saved. God loves you, you are rejecting him not the only way around, and because you reject him in this life, thast is the bed you have prepared for your self.
Mathew 25 does not have to do with the none believer. It talks of knowing that the bridegroom is coming(the Lord) and not being prepared.
John 3, I believe I said that those who choose not to believe, not those who have never known, do so of thier own free will, and they will suffer the consequeses
Thess. THose who do not know God are those who have committed evil. Keep in mind there is natural law, which is God’s law that can be broken
Revelations: these are those who break God’s law natural law, weather they have know him or not.

Precisely…he knows the outcome before anything happens and still has a place called hell, for those who believe such things, for those who did precisely what he knew they would do when he created them. Free Will? Stacked deck? Logical inconsistency?

In your statement youo are assuming there is only one out come for your life an d it predetemined. Our God knows all possible outcomes to your life. if you choose to believe and follow Him, that is your best destiny, buit if you choose not tom and life a life contraray to good conscience, then yes there is a hell , you have created your own seperation form God

As an omniscient being, he knows THE outcome in advance…not a set of possibilities dependent on personal decisions. The omniscience part was driven into our heads many years ago in Catechism. He knows everything…it was a nice control element for the adults to have that eye in the sky.

If he only knows a set of possibilities, then he is not omniscient…

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