God's will is thwarted in this world more often than not


#1

i believe God's will is thwarted in this world more often than it is ever fulfilled -- because of sin..

i have been in many situations in my life where i thought that the right and just thing to happen would be thus and so and yet "thus and so" didn't happen... not even close... :eek:

it seems to me that no one wants to do God's will... and so the world is messed up and getting worse by the day... by the minute..

and yet God's word tell us that that is the only way to get to Heaven...

"Not eveyrone who says Lord, Lord will enter Heaven.. but he who does the will of the FAther."

and only JEsus knows what the will of the Father is...

most people reject Jesus, though..

i guess that's why Jesus said that the way to Heaven is narrow and there are few who find it..


#2

I would say rather than thwarted, more ignored and allowed to be ignored by God. After all, all power comes from God. But yes, I agree sin is highly problematic particularly today.


#3

[quote="crazzeto, post:2, topic:182839"]
I would say rather than thwarted, more ignored and allowed to be ignored by God. After all, all power comes from God. But yes, I agree sin is highly problematic particularly today.

[/quote]

i don't see how you can say that all power comes from God unless you mean... OK, now i think i get it... but it caused a problem with me, you saying that, because people have LOTs of power.. IF they choose to do something evil, they use their power of choice and the same if they choose good.. & when they do something, there is power in that, whether for good or evil...

human beings have total free will (although it seems that sometimes we have no power over sin.. [and yet we DO])... so they are "gods" (says that in the Bible but i don't know where)...

anyway... most of the gods in this world don't seem to care what Almighty God (Father, Son & HS) thinks about a lot of things..

so when i pray "God's will be done"... i have no assurance that it will be answered, at least not completely ... in fact, usually that prayr doesn't seem to be answered at all... but then, sometimes it is also true that i don't know what God's will with any certainty in a particular situation...

maybe a good example would be when 2 people are praying for the same person.. one is praying for the person's cancer to go away entirely, the other prays that the person dies and be put out of his misery... Which is God's will ??? it may something neither has prayed for...

i guess that's why we need to say that prayer... but maybe that's not such a great example...

things that involve more "changeable" things than cancer... well, that may be different story...

if you pray that someone gives up fornication, well, that involves someone's free will... Prayer is powerful, but nothing can stop the person from doing that except the person himself... and so, if the person feels the HS telling him to give up that sin but he doesn't listen... well, God's will is thwarted... denied.. and other people (and himself) suffer the consequences


#4

this is why people end up in Hell... i mean SO many pepole end up in Hell... **according to St. Leonard, very few even make it to Purg.. **

when a person needs something and is refused by someone who claims to be a Christian, the will of God is thwarted..

when people have tons of $$ and yet there are starving people in the world and they refuse to help (but are busy helping animals to survive and thrive...) God's will is thwarted... (unaccomplished).

when people refuse to forgive ... etc..

when people refuse to give up fornication or masturbation... etc..

when people hate others for no reason...

when people stop their ears to the truth so they can believe whatever they want to believe..

when people refuse to put an end to abortion when it is in their power to do so... or at least they can do something about it but dont'..

when people refuse to do what Jesus says because it inconveniences them...

when people watch TV in the evening for hours & hours rather than pray or help others...

i could go on seemingly forever...

whoever said that this world is Hell was right ..


#5

[quote="distracted, post:1, topic:182839"]

most people reject Jesus, though..

i guess that's why Jesus said that the way to Heaven is narrow and there are few who find it..

[/quote]

Distracted, you seem to be saying that only a few people will ever find their way to Heaven. I disagree. I truly believe that any number of people who find God will go to heaven. The number as to how many can be small or huge. Here below is an explaination of what I mean.

"There are many parables about how narrow the path to heaven is. ("Enter by the narrow gate...and those who find it are few.") It sounds like Jesus is saying that the majority of people are going to hell (or destruction). I find this extremely discouraging."

Christ is saying that a life of evil and sin is far easier and more attractive to us than a life of virtue. Only a few will choose to lead a life of virtue and love. This theme is repeated four or five times, such as in the parable about the seed that is cast to the wind that produces only a few trees that last long enough to bear fruit, or the one about the camel passing through the eye of the needle.

Read all by themselves, it does seem that the great majority of people are headed for hell. But the Church interprets them differently. Yes, it is impossible for humans, all by ourselves, to do God's will and be saved. But we are not all by ourselves. God is always at our side, always offering His saving grace.

The way to heaven is indeed narrow. Left on our own, it is so narrow that no one could find his way. But we are not on our own. God is willing to help us find the way, if we just allow Him to. He is infinitely loving and merciful and helpful and powerful, but free will means that we must accept this help freely. Then we will make it to heaven. Is there a limit as to how many can go? No, just as there is no limit as to His love and power. With the help of God, all things are possible, even sinful mankind winding up in heaven. Amazing, isn't it? Christianity is a wondrous Plan!

Take the camel parable for example. A camel simply will not pass through the eye of a needle. It is not that it can't be done all the time; it can't be done at all, ever! So are we to conclude that absolutely no one who is not poor will get to heaven? No, of course not. Christ does explain that one, when the frustrated questioner starts complaining. Christ says, "But what is impossible for men, is easy for God." In other words, the whole idea is that it is impossible, but as Christ said, it is only impossible if we do not receive help from God. It is impossible, not just difficult, for any man to reach heaven on his own. But with God’s help, and God’s sacrifice and atonement, it is not only possible but promised.

That is the key to all of these similar sayings. Few if any humans are naturally good enough to stay on the hard road to heaven all by themselves. But God has a clever plan to help us all. His love for us in infinite. His mercy and compassion for us is infinite. His willingness to forgive us for all of our stupidities and evil and selfishness is infinite. He does love us all, Lord knows why!

Only a few find the narrow road. For the rest, God is there, willing and able to give directions and assistance. He will find a way. He will set us on the right road. The wicked, it is true, will refuse His help. But you are not wicked, and neither, I truly believe, are the vast majority of the people of this world.

This right here came from what i consider to be a very small but yet wonderful catholic website.If you wish to see more, here is the link.

meaning-of-life.info/index.html


#6

catholicexchange.com/2007/04/10/83694/
Catholic Exchange

"The ordaining will of God is also known as the “active” will of God, i.e., God’s plan for the whole of creation as well as each individual. God desires only our good and thus our human perfection. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church provides, “The ultimate purpose of creation is that God ‘who is the creator of all things may at last become ‘all in all,’ thus simultaneously assuring his own glory and our beatitude’” (no. 294; cf. nos. 290-96).

**The permissive will of God refers to that which God allows to happen. For example, God allows sinful behavior, even though He does not desire it. Why does God allow sin? God truly loves us and love necessarily implies freedom. God lovingly allows us to freely choose or reject His will for our lives. When man rejects God’s will, he freely sins. God permits such sin, as a consequence of the freedom He gave man, but He would never ordain such sin. The Catechism addresses the issue of God’s permissive will succinctly:

"Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral evil, incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world.

God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil. He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it:

"For almighty God. . . , because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself (no. 311).

Why bad things happen to good people is a fundamental question everyone should revisit on occasion. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, warning against easy answers, provides a beginning:

“If God the Father almighty, the Creator of the ordered and good world, cares for all his creatures, why does evil exist? To this question, as pressing as it is unavoidable and as painful as it is mysterious, no quick answer will suffice. Only Christian faith as a whole constitutes the answer to this question: the goodness of creation, the drama of sin and the patient love of God who comes to meet man by his covenants, the redemptive Incarnation of his Son, his gift of the Spirit, his gathering of the Church, the power of the sacraments and his call to a blessed life to which free creatures are invited to consent in advance, but from which, by a terrible mystery, they can also turn away in advance. There is not a single aspect of the Christian message that is not in part an answer to the question of evil.” (no. 309).

Ultimately, the suffering of the innocent must be accepted as a mystery, not the consequence of their sin. For further explanation, please see our FAITH FACT Human Suffering: Why Does God Permit It? "


#7

[quote="Art321, post:5, topic:182839"]
Distracted, you seem to be saying that only a few people will ever find their way to Heaven. I disagree. I truly believe that any number of people who find God will go to heaven. The number as to how many can be small or huge. Here below is an explaination of what I mean.

This right here came from what i consider to be a very small but yet wonderful catholic website.If you wish to see more, here is the link.

meaning-of-life.info/index.html

[/quote]

go to this thread at CAF about how most people end up in Hell... there is interesting info there, esp in the latter posts..

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=405632&goto=newpost

i have seen and experienced SO much evil in the world, i have absolutely NO doubt that Jesus meant exactly waht He said, that most pepole go to Hell...

i do not WANT to believe this, but i have no choice...We should face truth... not avoid it because it is unpleasant.


#8

one of the problems is that no one believes in God’s wrath anymore… well, almost no one …

how people can look around at all the evil and selfishness and impurity going on in the wolrd and then say that everyone or virtually everyone goes to Heaven – to be with a perfectly holy God – is way beyond me.


#9

Perhasps you are right. I cannot say for sure that most people go to heaven. But still I talked to the person that wrote what you read in that quote. It was said that everything in that website is right in line with church teaching. That even priests had nothing to argue about it.

Anyways to say that most people go to hell just doesn’t seem right. When I even think this, it is as if I myself am condemning so many. I don’t know now. I don’t know what to believe except that I will pray for everyone more.

Anyway God bless,

Art321


#10

[quote="distracted, post:1, topic:182839"]
i believe God's will is thwarted in this world more often than it is ever fulfilled -- because of sin..

i have been in many situations in my life where i thought that the right and just thing to happen would be thus and so and yet "thus and so" didn't happen... not even close... :eek:

it seems to me that no one wants to do God's will... and so the world is messed up and getting worse by the day... by the minute..

and yet God's word tell us that that is the only way to get to Heaven...

"Not eveyrone who says Lord, Lord will enter Heaven.. but he who does the will of the FAther."

and only JEsus knows what the will of the Father is...

most people reject Jesus, though..

i guess that's why Jesus said that the way to Heaven is narrow and there are few who find it..

[/quote]

I tend to get very torqued at people who do not want to do God's will. But if I don't pray for them, then I'm not doing God's will either. Lately I'm forcing myself to pray for certain people that I am least interested in praying for. "Paters" and "Aves" don't sound very prayerful spoken through clenched teeth, but in time, I will soften, I'm sure.

-Tim


#11

Dear Distracted,

I know just what you mean. Why, I was telling God just the other day how He should bring my brothers back to the church. He has been very slow in following my suggestions.:smiley:

Seriously, it was pointed out to me that my views on how a situation should be handled are not needed by the Lord. And that I should turn my family’s salvation over to God who loves them much better than I do and has perfect plans for them AND, having done that, I shouldn’t nag God about this any more or even bring it up to Him, not even mention that I know He’s working on it. And yes, this isn’t the ordinary way to pray for someone but I do have control issues and need to back off.

It’s hard for someone who loves God and wants everyone to accept Him, to look around at the world and think it’s a mess (and it is). But God knew this would happen but He still created Adam and Eve and allowed Hitler to be born, etc. It’s a mystery how He will bring good out of this.

It certainly appears that God’s will is thwarted all the time. We pray that God’s will be done and then see even we fail to do it sometimes, even when we have good intentions at heart.

I think we just need to trust that God is in control even when we don’t see it. If two people pray for different outcomes in a particular situation, God will bring good from their sincere prayers for that person but it may not be in the way they imagine. We don’t control God by our prayers; we pray because He tells us to pray. He knows our needs but He wants us to bring them to Him. And then we leave how He meets our needs up to Him.

It’s the same with the world. We see all the terrible things, sins, etc. going on. Maybe in heaven we’ll be shown all the good things that were going on at the same time, behind the scenes as it were. We look at ‘sin city’ and don’t see all the ‘little people’ who live there and are being faithful to God and never show up in the news.

I like what Art says, just pray for everyone more.


#12

"Paters" and “Aves” don’t sound very prayerful spoken through clenched teeth, but in time, I will soften, I’m sure.

i can SO relate… IN fact you have just summarized my entire life… :smiley:


#13

[quote="Art321, post:9, topic:182839"]
Perhasps you are right. I cannot say for sure that most people go to heaven. But still I talked to the person that wrote what you read in that quote. It was said that everything in that website is right in line with church teaching. That even priests had nothing to argue about it.

Anyways to say that most people go to hell just doesn't seem right. When I even think this, it is as if I myself am condemning so many. I don't know now. I don't know what to believe except that I will pray for everyone more.

Anyway God bless,

Art321

[/quote]

your doubts will vanish if you do 2 things:

1) ask a supposed Christian to do something for you that causes him (if he says Yes, which he probably won't) to go out of his way significantly ... Generally speaking, people HATE needy people (you have to come across as extremely poor and needy for this to work), but anyway, people think that if people (especially Christians) are "poor" they are so because God is angry @ them & punishing them or (and/or) they are lazy ..

2) become an extremely outspoken, devout, "fanatical" Catholic who tells anyone who will listen and everyone who won't the awesome truths of the Catholic faith (assuming you know a lot of them? i never did when i was young, but once i got catechized!!!!:eek: ... All h-- broke out, as it were)

if you do those 2 things in extremes (so called) you will find out how evil (ungodly) people really are... in a hurry...


#14

Distracted, you are rightfully concerned. As Mother Angelica says, everyone is born to become a great saint, and look how many saints do we have around us? Surely not many.

But since coming to a Catholic church I am seeing more possible saints around me, praise God!

How sad it is that so many, including myself, have spent our lives in vain and have missed opportunities to know God and love Him! It is truly amazing that God has not wiped the earth clean of us. Great is His mercy!


#15

[quote="poetryforjesus, post:14, topic:182839"]
Distracted, you are rightfully concerned. As Mother Angelica says, everyone is born to become a great saint, and look how many saints do we have around us? Surely not many.

But since coming to a Catholic church I am seeing more possible saints around me, praise God!

How sad it is that so many, including myself, have spent our lives in vain and have missed opportunities to know God and love Him! It is truly amazing that God has not wiped the earth clean of us. Great is His mercy!

[/quote]

frankly, i dont' thimk it is so much mercy, although it is that.. i think it is just... well, maybe a couple of things. for one, He cannot stand sin.. and so He somewhat removes Himself from our world-- to the extent that there is sin there...

another thing is that He now (i believe) waits until the very end to mete out true justice. it seems in the OT times, He meted out justice immediately... vented his wrath against sinners... idolators... right away

He still does in various ways. For one thing, the consequences of sin punish us...:eek::ouch:

but anyway... God is merciful to those who fear Him, as the Word says... and i frankly don't see too much fear of God these days... i see fear of economic problems..:rolleyes: i see fear of living without sex... :rolleyes: i see fear of being unpopular. :rolleyes: i see fear of speaking the truth. i see fear of evangelizing...

but not much fear of God.


#16

What do you mean? Are you saying that I have to fear God??:confused: I fear Hell, but why in the world would I be scared of our Lord?


#17

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