Gotta agree with Father "Z's" response to this poster about The Pope

https://wdtprs.com/2019/11/ask-father-i-utterly-reject-bergoglio-so-how-can-i-remain-a-catholic-fr-zs-rant-and-beatdown/

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My goodness, I wasn’t expecting that level of rant out of Fr Z on an anti-Pope Francis post. It’s a miracle! Thank you, Jesus!

Seriously, there are times when Fr Z makes a great deal of sense and this is one of them.

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What was said is at https://wdtprs.com/2019/11/ask-father-i-utterly-reject-bergoglio-so-how-can-i-remain-a-catholic-fr-zs-rant-and-beatdown/

“If we believe Christ’s promises – and I sure do – then we hold that the Church will not fail even to the end of the world when He returns to take all things to Himself and submit them to the Father,” this priest said with many words to this effect, and other things besides.

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Fr. Z’s answer is basically how I feel about people who say they are leaving the Church because of the scandals. The scandals are not the Church. Neither is the pope. If someone dislikes the pope, fine. Don’t listen to him speak or read what he has to say. Just stay Catholic and do what you are supposed to be doing as a Catholic.

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Fr. John Zuhlsdorf continues to say:

The Petrine Ministry is part of the fabric of the Church as the Lord designed. Somehow, until the ending of the world, the Church – and hence the papacy – cannot fail, even though we don’t know how.

Yes, yes, and yes, to him and to you.

What do people think they would have done in times when the Popes really were objectively scandalous, exacting fines before granting absolution, having mistresses or staging lavish banquets even as Rome was being overtaken by crimes and violence? The Church was the true Church then, and the Church is still the true Church now, regardless of whether it seems the Pope is being as faithful to his office as he ought to be or not.

Pray for the Pope, always. Our baptism demands that we each become saints, but the Holy Father’s example and teaching has the most far-reaching effect. Pray that he be a saint and pray that the billion and more souls under his care are guarded from being seduced away from the Church because they disagree with his leadership. Someone always will, yet he is set in a place to shepherd us all.

I just wish all the Father Z complainers (“He’s so divisive and anti Pope Francis”) could see this article.

Except they would probably say that “He’s missing the point! Pope Francis is great and wonderful! How could anybody reject him? They are risking hell-fire for rejecting him!”

:popcorn:

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Same article posted Here

Father Z did a very good job answering that question.

@Maryme Are you saying that Irishmom2 is a daughter of the devil?

@camoderator, please sort this.

I hope I haven’t misunderstood.

Flagged.

Over all it’s a good post, but he still left open the question of whether Pope Francis is an anti-Pope. That notion has circulated on his blog for some time…mostly among the reader comments.

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Because if he answered it based on the that, the person rejecting it would either get bad advice (if he agreed he wasn’t Pope) or would just dismiss the argument because “Pope Francis isn’t the Pope because of xyz and your argument doesn’t account for it”.

No he hasn’t. You can’t judge a person’s blog by his ‘reader comments’. Imagine what they could say about the CA site if they went by FORUM COMMENTS, for example, cherry picking certain very questionable comments!

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My favorite comment:

No, please don’t come to the Orthodox Church because of your current pope.

Staying in the Church is one thing and important. Remaining a faithful and joyful Catholic is quite another. The anti-pope vitriol is reaching dangerous levels of toxicity. Here’s a quote to ponder, attributed to Malachi McCourt: “Resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.”

Happy Thanksgiving!

I think he’s saying that the question is irrelevant to whether Catholics should stay in the Church.

In the context of this blog post, that’s a valid answer. Elsewhere, he may dance around that issue.

It’s an excellent post by Fr Z.

Not really, although he could have been more clear.

" Otherwise, your implication is that if Francis isn’t really the pope, the Vicar of Christ, then somehow the Church is now defective and you might as well go some place else.

No. And NO! And HELL NO!"
Now he does not clearly say no to the issue of Francis being an anti-pope, but he does refer to him as Francis, his papal name, as contrasted with the reader he is responding to.

He’s very quick to censure / respond to other comments he doesn’t like. I’ve seen some pretty strong “Francis is a heretic and an anti-Pope” comments left standing. I could be completely wrong, but it seems to me that some of his posts have hinted at the possibility of the anti-pope angle (bringing up irregularities around the conclave etc).

I feel that in other posts he has also left the question hanging. It’s troubling. He doesn’t cross the line of embracing it. The anti-pope theory seems to be gaining a lot of traction in traditionalist circles.

There is much I appreciate about Fr Z. That’s why I still routinely check out his blog. But there are aspects that disturb me.

No, I think you’re incorrect here. Also, it’s a very reasonable response to let some comments ‘lie’ as it were (especially if he has already responded to them either privately, or in similar posts years back. I don’t know how long you’ve been following him–I’ve been there since 2010 or so myself–but it is entirely possible that there have been posts back from 2013 or so where people raised that question and he responded "No he is not’. Father has to respond to a LOT of questions and he has a life outside the blog; I don’t think he really cares to answer for the umpteenth time, “NO Francis is NOT a heretic etc” when he’s already done so through the years. And I can also tell you that sometimes he does answer emails privately too.

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Wow. The gentleman fully believes that Pope Francis is in cahoots with the Evil One! :astonished:
He believes Pope Francis is giving over the Church to satan. If he really believes it, then he would have to go elsewhere, or during intercessory prayers at Mass, he would literally be asking for God’s help to assist an individual (Pope Francis) in Satan’s service.

God can’t do that.
So what is the option?
It’s one thing to believe a person is bad or incompetent. It’s a whole other ballgame believing a person is in service to Evil. The former is nowhere the same as the latter.

In good conscience, the gentleman would have to step away from the Church or at least not participate in part of the Mass (intercessory prayer for the Pope’s intentions).

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