Gresham, Oregon Bakery That Denied Same-sex Wedding Cake Closes

On Sunday, KGW stopped by Sweet Cakes by Melissa and found the bakery completely empty. All counter tops, display cases and decorations were gone.
Hanging in the window was a sign from the Oregon Family Council that read “Religious freedom is under attack in Gresham.”–222004711.html

If anyone is allowed to not serve whom they wish and cite “religious freedom,” then everyone has the right to discriminate against anyone else. I don’t see that as a way to run this country.

What if the only bakery in town won’t bake my daughters’ wedding cakes? What if the only car dealership won’t sell me a car because I am white, or Catholic, or over 50?

I am all for religious freedom, but what* is* religious freedom? How do we all live in a society with religious freedom?

I’m wondering whether a bakery would legally have to bake a pornographic or lewd cake if it was requested to do so? How about a cake that had an antisemitic theme for a neo-Nazi? Where should the line be drawn? Does baking the cake mean the bakery is implicated in the behavior they consider immoral?

They could have lied, said they were busy the day the cake was to be made, and they’d be in business today.

But no, they were honest and paid the price. Now that’s a shame.

Real spiritual desert…Sex Ed Mandate for public schools – 2009 – first graders know all about various forms of sex, Portland having most number of sex shops of any city in the country and highest casual sex practices as well, and several dissenting Catholic parishes publicly supporting gay marriage.

It is such a profound malaise…that if people speak out, hardly anyone will stand up with for them.

Gays need to respect other peoples’ differences and not be so cruel.

If you mean morals that are in accordance with the eternal, natural laws of God and what He has written in our hearts? Yes it is immoral.

For those who: turn away, reject. Those who do not see, close their ears and hearts to God. Not so much.

Think of it this way. …" The Oxford Dictionary added an entry on “Twerking”. They removed “Dignity” to make room, since we weren’t using it anyway." (By the way, that is a joke.)

White and over 50 are things you just are, and nobody said they refused to sell to any sort of people, gay or otherwise. They just refused to participate in a ceremony they believe is immoral. The Catholic thing still seems the same to me. No participation is required in a Mass or something. Bakers of wedding cakes in my experience perform a catering function, and that involves them in participation.

I’ve never been to a wedding in which the cake maker serves in a catering capacity. They bake the cake, deliver it to the reception venue and set it up, then get out. Hardly constitutes participation in a ceremony. As far as I know, they were only asked to bake a cake; not to participate in a total strangers wedding ceremony. :shrug:

The issue here is that baking the cake specifically for the ceremony is participation in the ceremony. Wouldn’t the baker be justified in refusing a cake for a neo-nazi gather, even if he didn’t take part in the gathering? Now, the event in question may be less unpleasant than a neo-nazi ceremony, but, since neo-nazi speech is considered as legally valid as any other speech, the legal principle is the same.

Since when does the cake play any role in the ceremony? :confused:

You cannot discriminate against (potential) customers based upon their political beliefs. The bakers could refuse to, for example, decorate the cake with swastikas or other neo-nazi imagery, but they could not legally refuse to provide their services on the grounds that the customer is a neo-nazi.

There’s a fundamental logical fallacy in the accusation that the baker discriminated against a person. No, he discriminated against a behavior. I’m sure he would have served the very same customer, the same person, had the customer ordered a cake for a traditional heterosexual wedding.

Let’s suppose “Adam” enters the shop and orders:

-a birthday cake for his birthday
-a cake for his mother’s or child’s birthday
-a cake to celebrate some unspecified event
-a cake to celebrate his retirement

-a cake to use during his upcoming sex orgy with 15 women
-a cake to celebrate with his buddies that he lost his virginity (while not being married)
-a cake to celebrate his gay commitment ceremony
-a cake to celebrate that his boss at workplace suffered a heart attack
-a cake to celebrate that his MIL suffered a stroke

My question is: can the shop owner elect to serve Adam for certain celebrations, but not for others? And that’s not a discrimination against Adam as a person, it’s just discriminating against certain behavior on Adam’s part that the shop owner finds immoral.

Btw, I’m not sure I understand why would the customer volunteer the information regarding what kind of celebration it’s going to be, and why does the shop owner even need the information? Isn’t a cake just a cake? Or does it have to be customized according to the occasion, e.g. can we imagine Adam asking the baker to make little figurines of ambulances and emergency personnel carrying off his boss to the ER, to decorate the cake with? Or little figurines of one guy engaged in a sex orgy with 15 women? :confused:

One of the priests in our diocese had a great idea on how to address such a situation.

Of course he said you should abide by the law, as long as it is the law.

So, for a bakery, these are all “custom” cakes. The owner prices them somewhat higher that your normal wedding cake. Since it is custom, one may charge a reasonable premium without violating the spirit of the law.

Then you post a sign in the store and on its website that ALL of the profit from same sex wedding cakes is donated to a specific cause (eg local diocesan effort to overturn the same sex law, or something similar). That is not in violation of the law, and in fact may motivate the customer to seek out a different bakery. Nobody’s rights are violated.

I’m guessing the free market has spoken and they don’t want to do enough business with this bakery to keep them afloat. Many other establishments have made the same claim of moral outrage; some have profited and others have seen a decline in business.

That would be illegal. It would be no different than charging black customers a different price than white customers. If there is nothing different about the product then the price hast to be the same for everyone.

As an agnostic, it would not be a big deal for you to do this. To us people of faith and Catholics, we are not supposed to participate in sin in any way. By making a cake with 2 men at the top for a ceremony, delivering it, setting it up, that IS participating. Worse, we believe is immoral, makes a person guilty of the sin.

We Catholics believe it to be much like being an accomplice in a crime.

If the cakemaker had agreed to do it, he would have been guilty of a mortal sin. A mortal sin is enough to put a person in hell.

While you may not share this perspective, I can only assure you that’s our belief. A number of us, if put to the test, would not only lose a business over this but go to jail, be tortured and die before doing anything that goes against our faith.

You are being asked to bake a cake for what is, essentially, a party. It is not a mortal sin to bake a cake for a wedding reception. You are not participating in any way. Do the owners of this bakery ask what takes place at all of events their customers order cakes for to make sure its nothing “immoral” or just when gays are involved? It appears to be the later.

I’m sorry, but I don’t believe a baker is condemning themselves for baking a cake. This seems to be hyperbole to me.

Gee, can you just imagine what is going to happen to people who own liquor stores?

O.K. so ther argument goes…what if one refuses to serve someone because they are too short…to fat…the wrong color…please…give me a break…what about just posting a sign in the business stating…’“we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone at our discretion” what about it…you counselors out there…?

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