I have a heated question, so dont go over-board in your reply, I understand how it may seem. But time and time again, I see some catholics that seem to be on their own crusade against the world to fight abortion, politics, political stances, government, world religions, wars and other events in the media. When we can’t control these people unless we vote, and lead by example. I feel there is so much finger-pointing in the world, we forget to point at our selves, and look how we are in this world. I it almost shames me to see these people uprising for the sake of whats right because everyone else around them is ‘wrong’. It makes Catholics look like all they want to do is fight people, and opinions, and no body likes to be called wrong or evil from some one they dont even know. It makes Catholics look like “you are with us, or you are the devil” and if some one is shunned, it closes their eyes to the truth and the light of that Catholiscism really brings to a person. I dont think accusation is the way to win hearts and minds.
Why are so many people like this, and is there a group or bible study for those who dont want to attack the world? Who just want to deliver the kindness and peace the scriprutes can bring to the heart? I feel like so many times if we said what was right, and gave of our self, and was that kind voice people often lack hearing in this world others might say, “Catholics are really great, the kindest person I know is ______ and they must have it together, I would like to be around these people, I would like to learn more…”
Am I the only one that feels this way? I feel guilty for feeling bad for these people because they are Catholics and I am not to judge, thats up to the lord for I dont know what they do 100% in their lives, but if I tell some one I’m Catholic they instantly think Im going to tell them how to vote or deliver a speach on prolife. Why cant it be scripture? Why cant it be how Jesus has touched my life? or why I believe in the Catholic faith?
You don’t think abortion is evil? I just don’t see any way around that one. There is a living person inside it’s mother and this little person gets torn out in pieces. I just feel that is evil. Not trying to go “overboard,” not mad at you, glad you’re here, but there is just no way to sugarcoat abortion.
Ask someone who has been touched by abortion, male or female. Do some research about this. The messes it makes of people’s lives, and not just spiritually, but emotionally as well. It is a horrible thing.
First, I will say that I see your point and think that you are pointing the finger (ironically enough) at something that needs to be addressed. However, right away I can see people pointing out a few Scripture verses:
Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s foes will be those of his own household.
In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers at their business. And making a whip of cords, he drove them all, with the sheep and oxen, out of the temple; and he poured out the coins of the moneychangers and overturned their tables.
If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also.
So it’s not biblical to expect that we can get by without ever clashing with the world. Conflicts are going to happen. If they don’t, we are probably not living out our Catholic faith as well as we think.
That said, there is a difference between sticking to the Gospel message despite persecution and being unnecessarily belligerent. Some Catholics (regrettably) don’t seem aware of that distinction. It is not meritorious to act like a jerk and then pat yourself on the back because everyone hates you just like they hated Jesus. Sometimes, it takes real discernment to be able to tell the difference.
In general—at least in the U.S.—our culture is becoming increasingly polarized. Politicians get votes and companies sell products when people are dissatisfied and blaming “the other guy” for their lot in life. Sadly, this bleeds into certain Catholic circles. People become more concerned with being right than doing the right thing.
I think the type of person who likes to “set the record straight” and is relatively unconcerned with the fallout it might have in another person’s spiritual life is probably over-represented on the internet. It’s a natural draw for those who want to share their opinion without concern for the consequences. But I don’t think that is representative of Catholics as a whole. I know plenty of Catholics in run-of-the-mill parishes who very much live out their faith in a way that attracts rather than repels.
If that’s the type of group you want to be a part of, start such a group in your parish.
You do realize that Catholic Answers is an apologetics website and its purpose is to provide evidence for and support for Catholic teaching, right? That includes standing firm on Catholic teaching about abortion, war and faith in the public square.
What you are looking for is a place where you can share your witness.
Don’t gauge the Christian Faith in accordance with the behavior of Christians. Christ came to call sinners and Christianity is full of them. From the time of Saint Peter and Paul much of their writing and efforts were spent trying to keep wayward Christians in line and Christ himself often rebuked his followers and others for their hair brained ideas. That is the struggle we all face along the way, trying to bring our worldly attitudes and behaviors in line with Christ’s teachings. It is a life long struggle for us and the Church.
We don’t follow a religion because we’re holy, we follow it because were not! The Faith is perfect, the “faithful” are not. As the only part of God’s creation we are unique in that we are combination of body and spirit. We live in both worlds material and spiritual and there is a struggle in all of us between worldly things and heavenly or spiritual things. The only constant is truth and the Church is the pillar and bulwark of Truth on earth.
So you can expect on this site and in all Christian churches, to hear error and old-self notions being expressed but don’t let that discourage you from seeking truth. Christ warned us about this struggle and about wolves in the sheepfold. I ask God’s forgiveness for when my opinions have been a little wolfish and when I haven’t been a good light for others.
This is my point, I didn’t say I didnt think it’s evil, or want to sugar coat the process. You’re right it’s not fair, and it shouldn’t be done. My best friend is here because her dad is a ‘rape baby’, and without him I would never have met her. And as a pre-nursing student the independent biology that unfolds is beyond amazing! But because I go about sharing my beliefs differently (not gung-ho with picket in hand), I was labeled as a choice supporter.
Great reply, the biblical references are always great and helpful for anyone. Also I see your point about going against the grain to do what is right, I believe in that. I guess I’m
In the middle of agressive and passive. I like getting out there and connecting with others, discussing religion and ideas. And you’re right, I’m not perfect and can easily point at my self for faults. It’s really hard to ask this question with out drawing lines, lines are not what in want, I want unity of the church. But I just had to open and ask. ( thank you all for your replies)
Also I love apologetics and seeing new ways to defend the faith. I guess I just see the need for an approach that doesn’t instantly close people’s minds and start them off defensive for fear of attack so to speak. After a few conversations these people eventually seem calm and open to discuss things and bounce back concepts and ask new questions. I always feel great when I become approachable and have won a friend in the process. I can only hope I have helped them to better understand the faith - with use of biblical quotes like the ones used previously.
I don’t label anyone, that isn’t my job, rather I label the actions of some people. Two people I have been close to have had abortions. One woman I knew had 4, so yes, I have gotten rather passionate about it over the years.
I tried to stress in my post that I was not mad at you or your post, in fact I am glad you decided to join the forum, I hope you stick around. I am no better than anyone else, I wouldn’t be surprised if I don’t pull a day or two in purgatory myself. I am a sinner. Our Lady, our Lord, and even our Pope have made it pretty clear they have no use for sanctimonious people. There are many Saints that stress humility in all things.
I appreciate the work you do as a Nurse, and again, I am glad you have joined us.
Even when the people do vote and voice their opinion, like Prop 8 in CA years ago, if their choice does not mesh well with popular public sentiment at the time, it is changed by the powers that be.
None of this is coincidence, the world we live in today was engineered to be this way, Satan was cast down to earth, with us, only natural to see drawing the secular world away from God in many different ways.
You might like the book How to Defend the Faith Without Raising Your Voice: Civil Responses to Catholic Hot Button Issues. The basic approach is to identify the nugget of truth and the genuine concern for other people that is present in the non-Catholic view. From there, you can see that the Catholic position actually better responds to that genuine concern. I think it’s a great approach to apologetics. It enables us to start from a point of common ground rather than being combative.
Honestly, I can’t see how to do apologetics any other way. I know that, for me, if someone comes at me with a finger wagging, I’m inclined to disagree with them just on general principle, even if I actually agree with them. I think it’s human nature not to enjoy being told what to do or told that we are wrong.
I think that in some cases where it is out in the forefront of the media, the Catholic is being portrayed in a negative light because of their zeal for the truth. In many of these cases they are being assailed by those who would marginalize life and morality and being shouted down to prevent the truth from being heard and overtly discriminating against the Christian in favor of those who would push unwanted agendas and lies on the Church. I have personally witnessed the government endorse LGBT fairs and activities and in the same breath shut down folks silently praying around the flag pole on the national day of prayer. So just my :twocents: worth