Growing Areas of Hostility Towards the Catholic Church


#1

I would be interested in hearing some others’ viewpoints as to what they see as areas of growing hostility towards the Catholic Church. I, for one, have noticed an increase in hostility and negativism coming from the Protestant and Evangelical Christian movements. My Jewish friends even agree with me that they, too, notice hostility from those areas not only to their respective group, but the RCC as well. Anyone see it coming from anywhere else?


#2

Could you be a little more specific.


#3

I never noticed it until I moved from my cushy mostly catholic town to a protestant one.

Maybe it is a response to all the attention we gained when dear Paul John II passed…or maybe it is a response to Catholic radio and all these on fire Apologists we have now.


#4

Maybe I was mistaken to think that we were becoming closer with the mainstream Protestants. :ehh:

As I’ve said on previous threads the lies & misconceptions about Catholics that come across the 3ABN cable television are unbelievable. See my thread on Seventh Day Adventists.

Shannin


#5

I caught a lot of heat about transubtantiation. I was told it was non-biblical, Pagen which somehow showed us to be the Anti-Christ, and that we worshiped bread (the adoration of the Blessed Sacrement is what I think he was talking about). This came from a Seventh-Day Adventist.

Maybe, at least from what I have seen, Sacrfice of the Mass (their conception of it), Interession of the Saints, and Mary. This is simply the main focus of hostility I have seen. It might be diffrent outside of Baptist dominated southeast Texas but, I can only go by what I see and hear. Hope this helps.


#6

I sense the hostility most from within…

particularly with regard to when Benedict was named Pope and now with the No SSA document the Pope will be signing…

I hear so much grumbling among fellow Catholics - saying this is where they may just have to draw the line and leave because the pope is wrong…

sigh

For those who allow, I explain that the Pope and the Bishops can not be wrong about the policy because it is a ‘teaching on faith and morals’ and they are protected from teaching in error by the Holy Spirit…it’s a promise from Christ himself…so you may not like it, you may not agree with it, but you must obey, respect and pray until you do.

For those who don’t allow discussion on the matter, I pray for them and uncharitably murmer a “good riddance, I look forward t your return” in my mind.

Reading more and more about the conversion stories of people who came to Catholicism from other denominations, faiths or coming back home, the more I recognize these trying moments for the CINOs and Cafeteria moments may be what the Spirit has in mind for them. Perhaps they need to leave for a while in order to appreciate what they had. So I pray.


#7

I see a smaller, but far more faithful Catholic Church.

I see mega-Chruches sprouting-up across the nation and those Churches do not directly attack the Church, rather they denigrate organzied religions…


#8

I noticed from talking to my [non-catholic] christian friends, that most of the hostility usually stems from the preacher of that particular church. which i have often wondered, why a christian would use the pulpit to attack another christian and how his congregation could except that as christ-like, but thats a whole different topic. I hope that one day we can all be respectful of each others religion, i know its hard, but not immpossible. In the meantime we should pray. God Bless


#9

Most recently it has been the ability of the Catholic church to be its own worst enemy, The scandal that just keeps on going. Going back a ways its the historical enmity of fundamentalist protestantism. Jimy Swaggert the Pentacostal firebrand often use to rail against the Catholic church.Until he was caught with that HOOKER !


#10

[quote=gmmartin42]I would be interested in hearing some others’ viewpoints as to what they see as areas of growing hostility towards the Catholic Church. I, for one, have noticed an increase in hostility and negativism coming from the Protestant and Evangelical Christian movements. My Jewish friends even agree with me that they, too, notice hostility from those areas not only to their respective group, but the RCC as well. Anyone see it coming from anywhere else?
[/quote]

I don’t see what you are describing–quite the opposite. But granted, I’ve moved from largely fundamentalist circles growing up to mostly mainline/moderate evangelical circles these days, so maybe this is my own perspective.

I don’t think it’s that fundamentalists/evangelicals are becoming more hostile to Catholicism, but that they are becoming more vocal and confident.

If you look at such a mainstream evangelical publication as Christianity Today and track its references to Catholicism over the past 50 years (I don’t claim to have done this systematically, but I’ve browsed around in it a lot), you’ll see that it has taken a much friendlier tone toward Catholicism as time has gone on. You might be interested in looking at Mark Noll’s article “Is the Reformation Over?” in a recent issue of Books and Culture (an affiliate of CT). Noll discusses the spate of conversions to Catholicism and other changes in evangelical attitudes to Catholicism, and he does it in a very respectful, sympathetic way.

I simply see no evidence whatever that evangelicals are becoming more hostile to Catholicism, and I see a lot of evidence to the contrary, to the point that those evangelicals who are hostile to Catholicism are obviously scared. If you read fundamentalist tracts, they’re continually ranting about how most “Christians” (i.e., evangelicals) are blind to the evils of Rome, etc.

Take the case of Norman Geisler. He wrote a book on Catholicism (Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences) that repeats many of the traditional criticisms of Catholicism but was nonetheless praised by James Akin for its fairness. He wrote an article in Christian History (another CT affiliate) claiming that Aquinas’s teachings are more or less compatible with evangelicalism. (This is nonsense, of course, and I wrote a rather angry letter to Christian History protesting Geisler’s claims; but it shows a willingness to look sympathetically on a key part of the Catholic theological heritage.) The fundamentalists and other real anti-Catholics like James White are mad at him precisely because he doesn’t take a traditional hard line. Yet this guy is fairly representative of conservative Protestant evangelicalism.

Protestants who are not necessarily anti-Catholic in a vicious way are also worried about pro-Catholic trends among evangelicals. Roger Olson, a Baptist, wrote a CT article warning against giving too much weight to tradition, since as he rightly notes this would lead to questioning many Baptist teachings! But note how relatively moderate his tone is. This is a guy who is speaking out against what he rightly perceives as a major trend among evangelicals. But he’s still not taking the harshly anti-Catholic approach that just about any Baptist would have taken 50-100 years ago.

Finally, I recommend an article by a Catholic theology professor, Fr. Thomas Rausch, S.J., discussing the ways in which evangelicals and Catholics can find common ground. I’m sure many of you will think Rausch is a liberal, but bear with him. I think he makes some good points!

Edwin


#11

This is a real good question…

Sigh many of the previous posters make some very good points and one that I think has not really been hit on is that many of us have decided that we are going to BE Catholic, with all that that entails for us and that when we do that we seem to draw some attention that a good ole luke-warm non-practicing Catholic doesn’t catch because he’s mostly indistinguishable from the folks around him. So, in that respect it’s a good thing.

As one that deals with Catholic ministry to prisoners, I know that that environment is unbelievably anti-Catholic and is heavily understaffed so that our guys maybe get to have some sort of service twice a month and only a few have access to Mass or the Sacraments and there is nothing in place (where I am in Florida) for any kind of faith formation and for those guys who choose to convert. Can you imagine being in prison for something and having no access to confession?

Prison is a hotbed of anti-Catholicism and the rhetoric is often swallowed hook, line, and sinker. To combat this, since mine is a correspondence ministry, I never fail to print out and include tracts from Catholic Answers that will equip the guys to handle the rhetoric…and they say they love it.

Is it worse today? I think so. There is great access to information and it seems like most will load up on an a-C site and come in here intending to valiantly “bring down the whore of Babylon” without taking time to consider that the Catholic Church has spent it’s entire history from the apostles themselves on answering heresies and the last 500 answering the latest new winds of doctrine that fuel most of the n-C denoms of today

One of the Mods here has this verse in his signature and I think it’s appropriate. “Ecclesiates 1:10 Nothing under the sun is new, neither is any man able to say:
Behold this is new: for it hath already gone before in the ages that were before us.”

Finally, one of the biggest pains that I see in the church are the radical traditionalists like the SSPX because their rhetoric IMO is just as anti-Catholic and divisive as that of the n-Cs outside the church. To me, it’s shameful and schismatic.

I have a running discussion with an RT buddy and the documents that he throws up at me (even one from CA!) are so biased and full of their own interps of what the documents say that he’s difficult to talk to. Much as I love the guy, he’s a regular source for aspirin… :frowning:

We really do have our work cut out for us in so many areas. And that is always a source for prayer. We have to remember that we are the light of the world and are responsible to do our best part to stem that rain of souls falling into hell like raindrops. To the harvest my dear brothers and sisters!
Pax vobiscum,


#12

I think the media and Hollywood are showing more and more hostility. I remember years back when movies were not hostile toward the CC, but now, they show liberal priest, liberal nuns, make fun of the Holy Father when receiving awards, have monologues making fun of priests etc. When some newscasters decide to talk about the Church and interview a priest, they will usually have some dissident to talk about celibacy. I remember a few years ago, I cant remember the primetime show, where that was the subject and three young seminarians were interviewd and the question was asked if they had had sex before and all three said yes. My pastor was interviewed at length at that time since he is married (a convert from Anglican church) but the host only showed one brief segment of the interview and had nothing to do with celibacy.


#13

[quote=YinYangMom]I sense the hostility most from within…

[/quote]

I agree. I even feel more hostility here on CAF :confused: and I haven´t even been here that long…


#14

I run in to it several times a week on the Wondir website,wondir.com/wondir/jsp/index.jsp Most are from “guest posts”, it has gotten so hostile at times that other Christian faiths on the site are starting to “stick-up” for the Catholic right to have an opinion. The abuse seems to run in streaks. We are up to Three Catholics to defend the Church,more persons would be very welcome.


#15

[quote=gmmartin42]I would be interested in hearing some others’ viewpoints as to what they see as areas of growing hostility towards the Catholic Church. I, for one, have noticed an increase in hostility and negativism coming from the Protestant and Evangelical Christian movements. My Jewish friends even agree with me that they, too, notice hostility from those areas not only to their respective group, but the RCC as well. Anyone see it coming from anywhere else?
[/quote]

What would be interesting to know is how mainstream media view the Catholic church. Fr. Groeschel said once at at talk that the media are anti-Catholic, particularly New York Times. He knows about New York Times because of what was revealed to him by a former top employee. He said that even a small negative news regarding the Catholic church would be put front page or somewhere really prominent.

On the other hand, we saw how mainstream media featured Pope John Paul 11’s death and funeral and even a bit of the recent World Youth Day in Germany

Does anything think that there are actual planned media campaigns against the Catholic Church?
Is this is true, what can we do?
Here are some interesteing links.is an interesting link on the topic:

christianlink.com/publish/feder/
jeremiahproject.com/prophecy/warxian.html
garnertedarmstrong.ws/christmas4.shtml

God bless you!
Teresa


#16

[quote=tgerlinger143]What would be interesting to know is how mainstream media view the Catholic church. Fr. Groeschel said once at at talk that the media are anti-Catholic, particularly New York Times. He knows about New York Times because of what was revealed to him by a former top employee. He said that even a small negative news regarding the Catholic church would be put front page or somewhere really prominent.

On the other hand, we saw how mainstream media featured Pope John Paul 11’s death and funeral and even a bit of the recent World Youth Day in Germany

Does anything think that there are actual planned media campaigns against the Catholic Church?
Is this is true, what can we do?
Here are some interesteing links.is an interesting link on the topic:

christianlink.com/publish/feder/
jeremiahproject.com/prophecy/warxian.html
garnertedarmstrong.ws/christmas4.shtml

God bless you!
Teresa
[/quote]

Hmm, interesting question.
Persecution comes with the territory.
I think we are called to do now what the original Christians were called to do - live the life of Christ so that by our actions The Word will become known to all.

I don’t think we’re called to fight with words or action, but we are called to fight with prayer.

St. Michael the Archangel has become my best bud of late. :wink:


#17

I also see the hostility from within. Who was it that said 'the devil has entered the sanctuary’. I think it’s true. ‘We’ are our own worst enemy. I wish Pope Benedict would require that we recite the prayer of St. Michael after every Mass.


#18

[quote=Catolico]I agree. I even feel more hostility here on CAF :confused: and I haven´t even been here that long…
[/quote]

That’s how I felt in the beginning too…don’t worry…after you spend enough time here reading through various threads you get a broader picture of these posters.

Some who treat you uncharitably in one thread will be your main supporter in another and a great comfort in even another. It seems to depend upon the topic at hand. Each of us seems to have reached a particular threshold on certain issues so we’re on heightened alert, so to speak, and it shows when just a word used here or there can sidetrack an entire thread. It’s kind of humorous later on…fascinating perspective on human nature.


#19

[quote=gmmartin42]I would be interested in hearing some others’ viewpoints as to what they see as areas of growing hostility towards the Catholic Church. I, for one, have noticed an increase in hostility and negativism coming from the Protestant and Evangelical Christian movements. My Jewish friends even agree with me that they, too, notice hostility from those areas not only to their respective group, but the RCC as well. Anyone see it coming from anywhere else?
[/quote]

the person who did most to educate me and make me aware of the pervasiveness of anti-Catholic feeling, legislation and social mores in our country was my history professor and grad school advisor, an orthodox Jew. I did graduate research for him on anti-Catholicism in the reform movement of the early 20th century, part of which ended up in a book, and for which I was credited.


#20

[quote=YinYangMom]I sense the hostility most from within…

particularly with regard to when Benedict was named Pope and now with the No SSA document the Pope will be signing…

I hear so much grumbling among fellow Catholics - saying this is where they may just have to draw the line and leave because the pope is wrong…

sigh

For those who allow, I explain that the Pope and the Bishops can not be wrong about the policy because it is a ‘teaching on faith and morals’ and they are protected from teaching in error by the Holy Spirit…it’s a promise from Christ himself…so you may not like it, you may not agree with it, but you must obey, respect and pray until you do.
[/quote]

Policy documents as such are not infallible - not unless they include something that is infallibly true. Even then, only that part would be “protected”, not the whole document.

So a Pope can perfectly easily adopt all-too-fallible measures, for the sake of protecting some doctrine which is infallibly certain. For infallibility does not replace the need for prudence and commonsense. Infallibility is an occasional Divine protection against leading the Church into systemic error on matters of dogma - that’s all. Apart from that, the Pope (and the other bishops), can commit blunders by the cart-load, in their moral conduct, their practical & speculative judgements, their judicial and executive & political functions, in decisions and pronouncements of every kind - even in what they themselves believe, whether they are acting as private teachers or not. The one area in which they are protected, is when they function as teachers of the Universal Church, intending to teach or to repeat a Divinely-revealed Truth. Apart from that, they can behave like complete idiots, just like the rest of us.

There is no virtue in over-extending infallibility, any more than there is in unduly contracting it.

All of this is in Bishop Fessler’s explanation and defence of the definition of 1870, or in Vatican II (which added the details about the infallibility of the bishops). ##

For those who don’t allow discussion on the matter, I pray for them and uncharitably murmer a “good riddance, I look forward t your return” in my mind.

But wouldn’t that include the Pope ?

Reading more and more about the conversion stories of people who came to Catholicism from other denominations, faiths or coming back home, the more I recognize these trying moments for the CINOs and Cafeteria moments may be what the Spirit has in mind for them. Perhaps they need to leave for a while in order to appreciate what they had. So I pray.

About the hostility - does it occur to anyone that some at least of it may be deserved ?

Maybe a starting-point would be, for us to ask ourselves why we are hostile to certain other religions and ideologies. Others are much the same as we are :slight_smile: - so the reasons we are hostile to others, may be the reasons they are hostile to us, more or less. ##


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