Ok so chairō which is translated “hail” means cheer, happy or well off. Can by the way Mary is afraid and questions the greeting, can we denote the greeting of being of royal and/or of a people of higher honor then the greeter( the angel)???
Luk 1:28 He went in and said to her, 'Rejoice, you who enjoy God’s favour! The Lord is with you.'
Luk 1:29 She was deeply disturbed by these words and asked herself what this greeting could mean,
You must using the Jerusalem Bible, if I am correct. Luke 1:28 is one of my pet peeves when no modern Catholic or Protestant translation can get it right and misinterpret its meaning.
Luke 1:28-30 (Douay-Rheims Challoner text)
28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God
Notes from the Haydock Bible Commentary
Ver. 28. Hail, full of grace: by the greatest share of divine graces granted to any creature. This translation, approved by the ancient Fathers, agrees with the ancient Syriac and Arabic versions. There was no need therefore to change it into gracious, with Erasmus; into freely beloved, with Beza; into highly favoured, with the Protestant translators. For if seven deacons (Acts vi. 3.) are said to be full of the Holy Ghost, as it is again said of St. Stephen, (Acts vii. 55.) and also of the same St. Stephen, (Acts vi. ver. 8.) that he was full of grace, (as the learned Dr. Wells translates it in his amendments made to the Protestant translation) why should any one be offended at this salutation given to the blessed mother of God; who would not have been raised to this highest dignity, had not her soul been first prepared for it by the greatest share of divine graces? — The Lord is with thee, by his interior graces; and now, at this moment, is about to confer upon thee the highest of all dignities, by making thee truly the mother of God. (Witham) — The Catholic Church makes frequent use of these words which were brought by the archangel from heaven, as well to honour Jesus Christ and his virgin Mother, as because they were the first glad tidings of Christ’s incarnation, and man’s salvation; and are the very abridgment and sum of the whole gospel. In the Greek Church, they are used daily in the Mass [the Divine Liturgy]. See the Liturgy of St. James, and that of St. Chrysostom.
Ver. 29. When she had heard. In the Greek text, when she had seen; as if she also saw the angel, as St. Ambrose observed. (Witham)
Why cannot any translation besides the Douay-Rheims, Confraternity Edition and Ronald Knox Translation get it right. Hail, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed are thou among women. It goes hand in hand with Luke 1:41-42 41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Luke 1:28 being a message from the Archangel Gabriel and 1:42 being a message from Elizabeth through the Holy Spirit.
No she was not treated like a queen, but rather as Holy person. I have some issues with the translation that you provided with for Luke 1:29. Why would she be disturbed at the message given to her?? That would tend to make it sound that she wasn’t in favor of God’s plan and that rejected the message sent by the Archangel Gabriel. But in Apocalypse 12 she is treated like the true queen that she is and not like a queen on Earth.
I would not say she was because she hadn’t fulfilled her part of God’s will. Christ wasn’t born yet. She was indeed holy as God chose her to bear Christ and she is def. blessed among women like Luke 1:28 states and Luke 1:42.
“Rejoice” is the Ancient Greek way of saying Hello, just as Hail was the earlier English way to say it, and Ave was the Latin way. It’s not particularly high-sounding or low-sounding. It’s simply the proper way to greet a person when speaking Greek. The angel is indicated as being polite.
But it’s the kecharitomene thing that’s hugely formal and deferential, in an unprecedented way and to an unprecedented extent. You can read more about this elsewhere, but it doesn’t just mean “highly favored”. It means “full of grace” to the maximum – more like “fullest of grace”, really. If you go with the favor version, it should be “most highly favored, more than anybody else ever”. (Which is why Sabine Baring-Gould translated it in his Christmas carol as “Most highly favored lady”.)
“Hello, Kecharitomene!” is how the angel addressed Mary, as if it were her brand new name and everyone knew it. Of course Mary wondered what the heck he was talking about. Of course she was freaked.
Now i have heard catholic theologians say that the angel vowed to her (luke 1:29) and that is what makes Mary afraid at the greeting. I also seen icons of the angels vowing to her in catholic art work… so what is the official catholic stands on this ?
vowed what words?? I don’t think Gabriel promised her anything, but bared her the message he was sent to deliver. Good news and the truth. Not promises. How can you see icons vowing?? Are words coming out of their mouths??? Or do you mean bowing??? : shrug:
Hail (Ave) means “All bow down” and therefore the angel did greet her as a queen. The proper way to understand “Ave” or “All bow down” is “all offer obeisance”
The angel is offering obeisance to Mary by saying “Ave”
She is troubled because she is an embodiment of humility itself. Mary’s humility is “below” i.e. more humble than every creature. She is innocent … childlike as a young maiden. Hence the angel’s salutation is not comprehensible for her.
The angel says “Fear not” because the Angel precedes the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.
God descending from His abode and overshadowing Mary takes therefore takes place in a supernatural abode. This abode, can be though of as the bridal Chamber, and as such, Mary would be initially fearful to enter. The angel would take Mary to this place and Mary would be afraid.
Mary’s submits to the angel’s command “Fear not”, and she enters into the bridal chamber where she is “overshadowed”.
Her ecstatic, pure, virginal, bridal union with God is not mentioned. However we know this mystery as the Joyful Annunciation.
Mary’s Joy in this regard is God’s Joy and this is eternal, not a passing happiness. But eternal Joy, … bliss.
Yes. … All of heaven bowed down and offered obeisances to Mary.