Hello, can anyone assist with this query? Until May last year we used to say the Hail Mary after the bidding prayers at Mass, (England) then we had a new parish priest appointed and he said that it was not appropriate for the Church in England and Wales. Does anyone know why and why this change came into effect? Other Churches where I attend mass still say the Hail Mary? Thanks if anyone can comment.
Your priest is changing the liturgy of his own back probably because of protestantism and false ecumenism, I suggest you contact your Bishop as the Hail Mary is still to be used in England and Wales…
It’s no more or less appropriate to pray the Hail Mary in England & Wales than anywhere else in the world. The point is that the Hail Mary is not an official or compulsory prayer of the Holy Mass as the Our Father is, for example. It depends on the priest - some will ask for Mary’s intercession at the bidding prayers by praying the Hail Mary, others won’t and that’s fine…but your priest is certainly not doing anything wrong by not praying it.
That said, I don’t know if there has been an official pronouncement from the Church in England and Wales saying that it should not be recited - I can’t imagine that there would be such a rule.
There was a document issued by the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales in April 2005 called Celebrating the Mass - a Pastoral Introduction. In paragraph 173 (p. 73) which deals with the Prayer of the Faithful, it says the following:
The Roman Rite does not envisage the inclusion of devotional prayers in the Prayer of the Faithful. As is traditional with liturgical prayer, the Prayer of the Faithful is addressed to the Father, through the Son and in the Spirit.
- Celebrating the Mass - HERE
That seems to rule out the Hail Mary at that point in the Mass. I don’t know if there can be any leeway on this; it appears not.
Well it is still said in every mass in England and Wales I have attended for the last 28 years and that is a lot of masses.
True, but, the OP mentioned bidding prayers. What are bidding prayers?
They are what we call the prayers of the faithful here in the UK. The custom in England is for the Hail Mary to be said just prior to the collection and offertory.
I can’t say I’ve ever come across the practice of saying the Hail Mary after the Prayers of the Faithful in Scotland.
Aren’t ‘Bidding Prayers’ just another name for the Prayers of the Faithful? I have vague memories of a school teacher calling them by that name.
I could well believe that, even if it were stated more explicitly than in Celebrating the Mass, it is such a venerable tradition in many churches that many priests would be reluctant to drop it. That said, I wouldn’t be encouraging disobedience to the Conference of Bishops, but I can understand both sides - I see where they’re coming from regarding the prayers being directed solely to God at this point of the Mass; but I can certainly see the value of imploring the intercession of our Blessed Mother.
You see, in 1965 when the Prayers of the Faithful were restored, the bishops of England and Wales were encouraged to include the Hail Mary at that point in the Mass. English Catholics traditionally had strong devotion to Mary and that is why the practice was encouraged. There probably wasn’t a similar recommendation for Scotland - I don’t think there was for clergy here in Ireland either. However, some priests here do pray the Hail Mary at that point in the Mass, others don’t…it just depends on which priest you get!
Perhaps there is an indult?
Do you mean for individual priests to apply to their bishop for permission to include the Hail Mary? Or that the Catholic Church in England & Wales has permission from the Holy See to include it? Either way, the “new” document seems quite binding to me, even though it doesn’t mention the Hail Mary specifically. In the introductory remarks by Bishop Roche of Leeds, it says that Celebrating the Mass is to serve as “a companion and guide to a greater appreciation and implementation of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal”. As such, to me at least, it would seem odd that it wouldn’t mention an exception for the Church in England and Wales such as the recitation of the Hail Mary. I’m certainly no expert on special provisions of the GIRM for the Church in England & Wales, but that would be my reading of the matter - I may be proved wrong!
In all the countries I’ve attended Mass (and that includes England) the Hail Mary has never been included in the Mass.
I never heard of the bidding prayers but then I am not in England. I doubt very much if the Hail Mary was part of the missal approved by the English Catholic bishops, it is certainly not in the GIRM
encouraged by whom? it seems OPs question revolves around why it was introduced, if it ever was a universal custom, and now, why it is being revoked
The actual text of the prayers of the faithful isn’t in the GIRM because they are not set prayers, in England it is the custom to pray the Hail Mary as one of the prayers of the faithful.
Here in the US I started to visit a new Parish after I moved and the priest pras the Hail Mary at that same moment. I thought that it was a great and beautiful idea to do this and I have embrace it without much thought. I don’t see anything wrong with it I will recommend that you give a call to your bishop and kindly ask if it is acceptable not to pray the Hail Mary. Again you can also talk to your priest again and if the majority of the parish wants it maybe he can start including it again
I think it was Bishop William Gordon Wheeler, bishop of Leeds from 1966-85. According to an obituary the aim of his episcopacy was to “implement the Council” - Vatican II, of course (he had attended the last 2 sessions of it).
I don’t know if he had any particular sway among the bishops in terms of liturgy in England & Wales, and I don’t know if the Hail Mary was “ordered” to be prayed after the prayers of the faithful. If it was a mere suggestion (as opposed to a binding decree) which took hold in some places and not in others, then it would seem that the reference in Celebrating the Mass, which I gave earlier, would carry quite a bit of weight.
In our parish, the bidding prayers aka Prayers of the Faithful, are concluded with some kind of formula as ‘Remembering these and all our other intentions, we ask Mary, our Mother, to pray with us and for us as we say…’
I think it’s a lovely custom.
As a previous poster noted, England was always called ‘the Dowry of Mary’.
News to me. I’m British and I never heard the Hail Mary even once at Mass in England.