Hail Mary

I was listening to a Catholic radio station near Portland, OR today. They actually had a segment from Catholic Answers on the station. I also noticed that this particular station is very centered on Mary. They kept asking Mary to intercede for them to Jesus. They also kept playing chants of Hail Mary prayers. I just don’t get it? Why center so much on Mary as compared to Christ Jesus? I can’t find such deep devotions to Mary in the Bible to validate this kind of attention. Would anybody give me a reason to shift my attention and love from our Triune God to Mary?

kbvm.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

No shift. Prayers are directed to Jesus through Mary. Mary, who bore the Son of God, who has that upmost intimate relationship with Christ by virtue of Motherhood. The first Saint of all saints.

When I pray, I pray to Our Lord (“Our Father”), ask for a little help and favor from Jesus’s mom (“Hail Mary”) and praise God (“Glory Be”).

You would not want to be associated with the angels - ‘Hail Mary, full of grace…’

…bad angels… bad…

Thank for that clarification. Can you help me find biblical support for this practice? I thought we are instructed in Scripture to go through Christ our mediator as we make our requests to our Heavenly Father? Scirpture bears testimony that both Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is interceding on behalf of God’s adopted children. Where in Scripture tells us that Mary can and is interceding for us. The 2nd and 3rd person of the godhead is infinitely superior to Mary who is a created being.

Romans 8

Future Glory

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because [6] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, [7] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

God’s Everlasting Love

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be [8] against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. [9] 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Matthew 12

Jesus’ Mother and Brothers

46 While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. [1] 48 But he replied to the man who told him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

That is of no help to aid me understand the apparent deep devotion to Mary as compare to God alone. I find this Roman Catholic distinction to be quite strange. I find much deep affection for the Catholic Church and Mary instead of God alone in some of the postings, and Catholic radio station.

Do you shudder when you say Hail Mary, full of grace.

Somebody here once said in response to a question like yours that we put statues of God outside our houses and at the crossroads and outside the churches in the same way as we put our best furniture or prize possessions outside - we don’t.
If you see devotion to Mary, then go into the heart of the Church or into the Catholics heart and see the devotion to God.

…as compare to God alone.

God was never alone when He walked the earth - He chose to be a man and live among His friends.

When I’ve realized holy Saints and living persons who have much devotion to Mary also have greater love for Jesus and for their neighbors, I know they were doing something right.

Yes, Jesus is our Mediator to our Heavenly Father, but why one is afraid of asking the Saints, especially Mother Mary, to pray for them if they are not afraid asking others to pray for him? Is this because the Saints are dead? is this because God cannot allow the Saints in Heaven to continue loving us?

The Saints are not God but God can do all things with the Saints including allowing them to intercede for us.

If Jesus used the disciples and now you to spread His Word and Love, He surely continues to do that with the Saints in Heaven.

If love lasts forever, why people pray for us and stop when they reach Heaven? Doesn’t God want them to continue to practice this Love?

If I ask you to pray for me, what would you say?

Reformed,
The below quote from John Martignoni may help answer your question. John is responding to someone who claimed that Catholics worship Mary:

**I do not worship Mary, nor does any Catholic I know, nor does the Church teach such a thing. You honestly believe that saying the Hail Mary is worshipping Mary? If you do, then I guess you believe God worshipped Mary…because the Hail Mary is simply repeating what God said to Mary Himself. Do you believe God was worshipping Mary in Luke 1 when He said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee?” Was the Holy Spirit worshipping Mary when He inspired Elizabeth to say, “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb?” And, when He also inspired her to call Mary the “mother of my Lord?” Are you not aware that by repeating the Hail Mary we are simply praying scripture? **

You see, we honor Mary. As John M. also said: “God the Father honored Mary, the Holy Spirit honored Mary, Jesus honored Mary, so if we imitate Them and also honor Mary, we are in pretty good company”.
Not an exact quote, but best as I can recall.
Another one I would like to quote: “…all generations shall call me Blessed”. We definitely call Mary “Blessed”. Draw your own conclusion as to the practice of other churches…

It is my opinion and experience that Protestant churches agree that Mary was greatly blessed. The question as I see it is “if God blesses someone, is that to their credit or to God’s?”

As we say, a prayer to Mary is a prayer to God.

Man judges by the outward appearance, but only God knows the heart. All I can share is my fallible perspective. There is a great great affection for the Roman Catholic Church and Mary over love and affection for God alone. Read the postings and look for this theme.

That is what appears to be idolatry to those who are not Roman Catholic. Read your posting again.

Do you mind trying to support this practice with the Holy Scirptures?

If everything has to spell out for you, then show in the Bible where in Heaven the Saints cannot practice their love for me and you?

You have opened a Pandora’s box with that kind of thinking.

does that mention in the Bible?
If you can’t support what I say is wrong in the Bible, then you can’t say more.

Btw, thanks for saying “Hail Mary”. :wink:

It either is idolatry or it is not. Which is it, reformed?

“…from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name.”

Pray to Mary. You acknowledge the great things He has done to her, by asking for her prayers.

Reformed… I was soooo trying to stay out of this thread… but alas… I can not. You are trying to get Catholics to explain their devotion to Mary by using sola scriptura… that doesn’t work! We don’t just have the Bible so we don’t just use the Bible… we have the Bible, We have Traditions, we have the ECF writings and we have the magisterium. Through all of these we can see in the Bible that Mary was called Blessed and Full of Grace. In the Traditions we see how Mary was treated with honor amongst the believers, and the ECF teach us what the apostles taught them that didn’t make it into the Bible because there was so much to tell… and we have the Magesterium… the teaching authority that has passed down to each generation of theologian from the time of the apostles. We are not going to keep giving you the same verses over and over again and have you dismiss them because of your personal interpretation. We have the example of Jesus, the apostles, the ECF and so on… all the way up until this very day. The most holy of people that ever lived have set an example for us to imitate… look at Pope JPII, or Padre Pio, or the lives of the saints… they all had devotion to Mary, the Blessed Virgin mother of all.

Why do you think all these people showed their love for Mary? Because she is the YES, she is the one who bore God in her womb… that is no insignificant thing. If you even look at the OT you can see that the ark of the Covenant which carried God was not to be touched… in fact people who touched it when they weren’t supposed to died on the spot didn’t they? If this is how the vessel that carried God’s word (10 commandments), the manna (God’s food), and the rod of Aaron…a symbol of the shepherd and also the rod of iron…meaning to rule. So how about the new ark… Mary carried the Word within her womb… and didn’t he give his flesh so that all might live? Is he or is he not the ruler, the Messiah, the God who is the author of life?

We honor the woman who carried God within her… who nursed him and raised him…who stayed with him even unto his death and beyond.

There is a really good explanation of Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant here: salvationhistory.com/online/intermediate/course2_lesson3.cfm

And additionally, I would also like to point you to explanation and scripture here:ourladyweb.com/mary-defended.html

Reformed,

If I ask you to pray for me, what would you say?

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