Just asking questions. Has the popularity of career-priority women influenced men turning toward pornography? Did the culture of wives and modest dress before the 60s help men better avoid sins of unchastity? Was there more respect between both genders prior to modern feminism? Has modern feminism pointing a finger at men as oppressors influenced men to seek more attention toward pornography where attention is perversely focused on men’s desires?
Radical feminism, except for a few brief instances, did not stop the graphic exploitation of women. So, indirectly, by not opposing the porn industry in any effective way, they have allowed it to flourish.
It was the ‘porn industry’ that took what was meant to be private and put it on public display. This cost millions of dollars. In 1968, the worst you could do legally was buy Playboy. By the 1970s, you had graphic gynecological porn and men became addicted as planned. Porn soon became the opium of the mostly male masses. Then they added strip clubs and topless bars.
The porn industry is money driven. As technology exploded, the ways and means for the porn industry to make money also exploded. Blaming women for being immodest certainly will not endear you to women on these forums. That reasoning almost smacks of blaming a woman for her rape because she was dressed in a provocative manner.:eek:
Not in quality.
No. I think it is just talked about more. “the culture of wives” would suggest that if a man is married he wouldn’t have problems with unchasity. That is definitely NOT the case. What’s the deal with men always trying to blame women for their problems? If my husband told me that the reason he watches porn is because I have a 9-5, I would to bodily harm to him.
The porn industry primarily exploits women. Radical feminists have not helped in any significant way to stop the exploitation of women, and porn encourages men to look at women primarily as a collection of body parts. Porn degrades women.
I remember in the early 1970’s, the early feminist movement was against porn and their motto was at that time “we are not sex objects”. Without a strong Christian base for their ideas since Christianity was rejected, they obviously have drifted into a lot of garbage that hurts women such as abortion, easy divorce, birth control and pornography, because if boys do it, then it’s ok for the girls. Real feminism is against anything that hurts women and children which include abortion, birth control and pornography and easy divorce. You can’t pin the rise in pornography on wives not staying at home and modest dress. The fact that society has left Judeo-Christian values such as sex is for marriage coupled with the pill and legalizing abortion, no-fault divorce have lead to the rise of pornography. The early “we are not sex objects” was forgotten about in the run away from the values of Christian culture.
One thing I don’t understand is why women dress scantily, then say that men objectify them. Isn’t the whole point of dressing that way to look “sexy”?
Yes, there are a lot of stupid women out there as well as men that want to take advantage of them. It’s a “I can do what I want when I want and how I want” and that attitude doesn’t want to acknowledge that God created men and women differently and if you don’t want to be seen as an object then don’t dress like one. But sadly people have the belief they can do what they want and don’t realize or care how it might affect others.
Who is to blame for immodesty if not the individual?
It’s a two-way street and there are contributions from both sides. Chivalry was originally a concept where men would honor and respect women in exchange for women respecting men by clothing their bodies with modesty.
In today’s society, men no longer respect women (by looking at them as if they are pieces of meat) and women no longer respect men (by dressing like they are pieces of meat). Both sides have a lot of work to do.
There have always been clothes that were “sexy.” Centuries ago, some women wore dresses that their breasts were basically hanging out. I’m sure there were several “nip slips.” Corsets, which were introduced a longgg time ago, hugs the body.
What do you want women to wear? Should all women dress like women in the Middle East? Yes, women wear less clothes today, but I see nothing wrong with wearing a pair of shorts. I don’t want to see “Daisy Dukes” though. What is considered immodest by some, isn’t immodest to others. There are people who are extreme on both sides.
Exactly. This case is…closed!
It’s money, money, and more money. The human sex drive is extraordinarily powerful–pretty much as strong as the will to live. At its most basic, the two may be interchangeable.
Entrepreneurs find increasingly creative ways to exploit the human attraction to sex.
I’d only make one change to kozlosap’s post: by and large, the sex industry drove technology, not the other way around. Many of the WWW technologies that are now commonplace were developed by the porn industry first. In fact, the software driving internet forums like this one was probably first used on sex sites.
What about women who, in the name of women’s rights and liberation, put their career first and husbands second? While the husband is ultimately culpable of his own sins regardless of external pressures, does the modern feminist attitude of “me first, me me, I do what I want and I stomp out male oppression” contribute to male refuge in pornography?
This is not to suggest women are to “blame” or that they should never have a career or that men don’t have culpabilities of their own. The modern-feminist attitude as a societal influence is the topic here.
These women look perfectly happy.
Sadly a lot of time feminism only means that women want to be like men, or at least dirty men. They feel that since in their minds men sleep around with whomever and don’t have any consequences, women should do the same, which is why they approved of birth control. As for the porn thing, I think they were against it, but probably not very strongly, or felt it was a woman’s right to do what she wanted with her body.
What makes me sad is that true feminism didn’t start out as the pro choice drivel. The original women’s rights movement in the 19th and early 20th century was not only for womens equality in terms of voting and employment rights, but also was pro life though there were some exceptions. Even the early feminists in the 70’s were originally pro life until they were convinced by some doctor (so I’ve heard. please correct me if i’m wrong) that unplanned pregnancies were dangerous for women and abortions should be legal.
So if you steal something you’d blame the victim because they made it too easy for you to do so?
I’d never say that a level of modesty is not a good thing. However the premise of this reasoning often expects others to regulate your own morality, which is something I find to be on very shaky ground.
How doesn’t pornography objectify men too? In many cases male pornstars don’t even get paid while female pornstars make a lot. This is the problem we only think it is a male against female thing. Recent surveys I’ve quoted in posts put the estimate of women watching porn anywhere from 30-76%. The 30% figure was from a study decades ago. Modern women are estimated to watch it in numbers greater than 50%. Of coarse we’ll just dismiss it as “those awful males psychologically damaging women.”
As far as dress goes, I think guys need to understand that women dress the way they do to trash other females. That is how women compete with each other. Anytime I see a scantily clad woman I immediately sense her insecurity in herself and that turns me off and away. A confident and virtuous woman knows she doesn’t need her body to make it. I also think it is very cruel how women treat each other in the beauty department. Look up “teen shaming.” It is girls against girls. I do not want to be around a vicious woman that seeks the emotional and psychological destruction of other b/c I never know if she could turn on me. Porn girls represent an extreme case of this.
Many modern feminists call themselves “sex-positive feminists.” They use sexuality as a weapon to get power from men and assert themselves. Too many men are foolish and buy into it. Once again we see man being destroyed by women acting as a gateway.
yes, I agree with you, I’m old enough to remember “we are not sex objects” mantra which was abandoned pretty fast. Yes, real feminism is for women and children which mean it should be against contraception, abortion, pornography, no fault divorce etc. The early women’s rights movement with Susan B Anthony was very pro-life and saw abortion as a crime against women as well as the unborn baby.