So far only a tiny number of women have come forward (relative to 3.5B women), highlighting atrocious behavior by some disgusting high-profile harassers/rapists. It may seem like a witch hunt, but that’s probably because it is so new and highly newsworthy that women finally have a voice.
It’s not a witch hunt or a lynch mob. It’s not Japanese Internment, McCarthyism, the Inquisition, OR the Holocaust… It appears that every time we inch closer to holding powerful men accountable for their actions, bad historical metaphors tumble forth from people who are eager to appear to be concerned about overreach and due process. Overreach is always possible and due process is important. But comparisons that equate holding the powerful accountable with systematic persecution of marginalized people are both offensive and intended to cloud the truth.
#MeToo is a rebellion against the kinds of entrenched powers that persecute… it’s NOT an act of persecution.
Sure it has, but that does not mean it is not a good necessary movement. Some men will get bad press they do not deserve. This is not a problem with a movement, but a condition of our interconnectedness. Sin hurts more than just the sinner, and in this case, the victims. Those who are hurt by this will not only have the false accuser to blame, but also all the scuzz-ball men that have been taken advantage of women in their profession.
It’s to you apparently that’s why you asked for the confirmation?
I don’t want the movement to die out, it needs to lead to a clear change in our dating norms.
I just want higher standards around what is considered a crime and a focus on the recency of transgressions, rather than digging up actions from 20+ years ago that really reflected norms of the day but do look bad in today’s light.
Honestly, guys were taught to show their interest and ‘make a pass’ at a girl, not ask for consent before trying to kiss a date. The girl was expected to accept or reject the pass.
And the guy was supposed to accept the rejection. THAT’s where the problem comes in.
There are cases coming out where the guy did accept the rejection, but it’s till being shown as sexual harassment.
I think we are evolving here in a very good way,
just think we should focus on more recent transgressions and ones that have clear assault in them.
The focus of the MeToo movement doesn’t have to do with what people do on dates. It has to do with what women (and yes, at times men) have been subjected to at work, at school and in other situations where the targets of inappropriate advances or harassment ought to have been automatically treated as simply as persons worthy of respect rather than objects of sexual desire or indecent attempts at humor. It is about making the pretended boundaries into the real boundaries that ought to exist.
It should not take one’s father or brothers to “explain” elementary levels of respect and decency when it comes to inappropriate sexual advances. If you wouldn’t treat your boss that way, why should you think you can get by with treating someone else at work or at school that way?
You aren’t paying attention, it’s gone far beyond the workplace.
Yes and no. Some of the accusations are true. I don’t believe every single one though. There are in fact women and men who make false accusations, jumping on the bandwagon.
It has not gone beyond the behavior that no one could defend to their targets’ fathers. When we are not talking about what is misconduct in the workplace, we are talking about what is assault in personal situations. This isn’t defensible “mixed signals” stuff, unless you count the signal that some of us were above the rules in spite of the “official” story as “mixed.” (I mean student-athletes getting different treatment by university officials than non-athletes facing the same accusations.)
Like I said, you are out of touch with where the movement has progressed.
Obviously, always acting in a way that would make your parents proud is sound advice, advice I’ve tried to live by.
The problem I have with it is the guilty until proven innocent aspect, and how loosely women are being convinced to interpret sexual misconduct.
I overheard a conversation on a college campus where a couple girls were talking and one said she regretted hooking up with a guy after a date because he started trying to see her all the time and was sending her flowers and stuff (basically the dude actually liked her and was pursuing a relationship and she didn’t want that).
Heard one of her girlfriends say that if she regretted it after the fact even if she gave prior consent it was still rape and she should go to the cops.
That to me is ridiculous.
That’s an example of what I’m referring to.
Or there was recently a story written about a girl who dated a famous actor/writer - Aziz Ansari. He was accused of sexual assault when by all accounts they had a consensual relationship.
I can agree that accusations out of the distant past without corroborating evidence–that is, not “my friend has been telling this story about Mr. Famous in bars for the past 20 years” but rather, “I was there the day she said it happened, and I noticed that she looked upset shortly after being alone with Mr. Famous before she told me anything about the incident to me, which she did do at the time…but there was no way she could have said anything to any authorities at the time and kept her job”–really should not subject the accused to rash judgment.
That means some people who did really bad things are going to get away with what they did, but the alternative is to allow accusations for which no defense other than an obvious (an by now usually unobtainable) alibi exists. If we can simply let people tell their stories who we know were in no position to tell them at the time the alleged incidents occurred (for fear of firing or being run off their campus, for instance) but who did tell credible stories with some evidence at the time to those who would listen, that will go a long ways to stopping this kind of thing in the future. I don’t think it is an injustice to tell some, “Thanks for the story, but it isn’t fair to subject Mr. Famous to consequences unless there is some witness or some way he could defend himself from someone falsely telling a story similar to yours. We cannot just believe everyone and not give those accused any way to defend themselves.”
As far as a “witch hunt,” though…the witch trials involved a situation where there had been no crime. There were no witches at all. That’s not quite the same as when opportunistic people make accusations and throw them in alongside accusations that are true but have been suppressed. That is a far trickier situation.
The “innocent till proven guilty” defense is being abused to a ridiculous extent. It applies to defendants who are facing legal action, and possible jail time. It’s not supposed to be an excuse to not take allegations seriously.
I’m not quite sure what is being discussed here. Other than the obvious factor that you aren’t going to be accused of misconduct outside marriage if you aren’t having sex outside marriage, no, it should not be considered a rape to have obtained consent from someone who would have regrets 24 hours later.
It is sexual assault to insist that a sexual partner has reached a “point of no return” after which she cannot decide she is not going to cooperate with someone’s sexual desires any more. Sorry, but there must always be room for a partner in a sexual act to repent of his or her choice and stop. We are not animals.
The problem is how much someone can be punished or judged for allegations for which it is impossible to mount a defense? Reputations are valuable and rash judgment is a moral evil, as well.
I consolidated this with another post…
True, but one must take into account that false accusations make up a minority of sexual misconduct allegations.