Have I been made an accomplice to sin?

(Account being used for a friend to ask this question…)

Anonymous:
My fiancé and I spent the day together cleaning up and moving things into the new home he purchased that he and I will soon live in together once we are married.

When I first proposed getting together to clean up the house, he expressed some concern about us being alone together. I retorted that “as long as you keep your hands to yourself we wilI be fine…” I said this in half joking half serious.

The next day, the minute I arrived to the house to get work done and spend the day with my love, he runs to me and embraces me in a romantic, definitely not a hug you give to your mother kind of hug. He’s hugging me and being handsy and this type of interaction causes arousal. I jokingly push him away and playfully scold him for being so handsy BUT HE DOESNT STOP. This of course causes certain desires to arise and I DONT WANT TO FEEL THAT WAY! I push him away and tell him to knock it off at every change he gets and to some degree he abides by my requests, but throughout the day he sneaks in a few touches and kisses that I really rather he not.

I NEVER wanted to enter into the day with any feelings of arousal whatsoever. I am very much attracted to my fiancé and our chemistry is pretty solid and I understand that these types of reactions are not in themselves sinful, but I feel culpable to some degree because of the way I handled my interactions with him. I didn’t want to leave because I had to drive over an hour get to the house and I didn’t want to yell at him or be mean, so when he would be overly affectionate to the point where there were feelings of arousal, I would playfully shoo him away or jokingly threaten him if he didn’t stop. Perhaps I wasn’t stern enough in how I handled the situation…

We had a brief discussion at the end of the day and he apologized for being as handsy as he was and plans to go to confession tomorrow.

I guess my question is this, have I in anyway been an accomplice in sin in my situation I have explained to you today?

It doesn’t sound like it to me. I might add, you should have a, not so jokingly, talk with him about the feelings you had due to his actions. Not scolding, just up front.

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I wouldn’t have thought so. She managed to not cross any lines whilst alone so well done to that lady

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It’s a worry that your fiance is not respecting your conscience, when you stated your wishes clearly.
May God grant that he will listen and respect your conscience and your wishes after marriage.

Perhaps, have a good talk with him, adult to adult, reaffirming your wish and intention to be chaste before marriage, and that you feel disappointed that he let you down. While his enthusiasm is understandable, it is thoughtless towards you, given your convictions.

If he doesn’t respect that, and as someone has already broken your trust, there is less guarantee that he won’t again.
perhaps you need to quietly tell him that in conscience you won’t be at the home alone with him again if he doesn’t respect your soul or value your eternal salvation. If he doesn’t respect your conscience or your request, it isn’t your fault, it’s on him, if everything isn’t prepared before marriage.

Alternatively could you ask a girlfriend you trust or a sister to be with you before you agree to come to the house, or go fix things up while he’s not there.
It’s sad, but plenty of time after marriage to do things together.

God bless him and God bless you.

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I agree with what @Trishie said in the post above.

However you wrote-

so did he express he might not be able to control himself?

You retort was made

(Bold emphasis is mine).
and

(Bold emphasis is mine).
I can understand your reluctance to upset, cause friction etc. and were trying to get the message across without coming down like a ton of bricks on him, but I also wonder if perhaps he understood you as not really being serious about rejecting his physical demonstrations because you only “half jokingly” rebuffed him?

So whilst you didn’t intend anything to happen, my concern is that before you both agreed to meet at the house, knowing his concerns as he’d expressed them to you, seems to indicate to me that being alone together was a near occasion of sin for him, (and perhaps(?) for you too.)

A near occasion of sin is one where an individual places themselves in a situation where they know they will be tempted to sin, and which may easily lead them into sin.

Thankfully you resisted his advances.

Your feelings/certain desires which arose were not deliberately sought, so in that sense in my opinion I don’t think there is sin on your part in that circumstance, but on the other hand there is the near occassion… :woman_shrugging:

Whilst I understand your reluctance to leave due to the travel time, I also in my opinion don’t think it justifies staying considering the possibility of serious sin being committed by him. I’m sure that you love him very much and so want only what is best for him which certainly would include his eternal salvation.

and

I think you’ve answered your question yourself by these two statements.

Regarding your last question - my advice to you would be to ask a priest this in confession. My other piece of advice would be to avoid being alone at the house together in future until you are married.

God bless you both and may your marriage be happy and fruitful.

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Never mind

I don’t think the woman committed any sin here.

I do think there was some big “failure to communicate” properly regarding what would be going on at the house.
A man who is mature enough to be buying a house and getting married should be able to control himself sexually. Simply being alone with his fiancee should not be enough to set him off. I too wondered if the “half-jokingly” suggested to him that maybe the lady wasn’t being totally serious about drawing the line and saying no hanky-panky.

The couple should have a discussion with each other about this incident so they better understand each other in the future.

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I don’t know. She’s pretty clear throughout that her “no” was playful/half serious. And it doesn’t sound like he was trying to initiate sex so much as some flirtatious kissing or touching. I don’t see any of this as a huge deal, really.

If she really was trying to say clearly “get off me” and he wasn’t respecting that, that’s a horse of a different color. But it sounds like at least from his perspective they were engaged in this kind of tongue in cheek flirtation, which is to be expected with an engaged couple. If she meant to convey “no, seriously, knock it off” I would suggest doing so in a less playful tone. But that’s a communication issue, not really a question of sin.

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I agree. Thank you

I didn’t pay enough attention to that aspect, that she may have sounded playful to him. From his point of view, he was probably feeling excited about the house and the future with the girl he loves.

She just perhaps needs to be clearer, about her intentions and expectations, or perhaps she thought a lighter approach would be less likely to sound ‘mean’. She had good intentions, but it’s not helpful not to be clear as my husband often points out.

and I need to read a post several times perhaps to catch all the nuances, and more carefully before replying. I Usually try but sometimes falls short
I believe I reacted to her emotions more than I should have, so missed some of the facts.

Thanks for the correction :sun_with_face:

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I would have a serious talk. If this man does not respect your “no means no” now, what is going to happen later? If abstaining from “handsy” is something he ignores now, making you aroused, what happens after marriage when you must abstain due to health or distance, travel for work or other family commitments?

This is not “run away now because he is a sex maniac”, but, rather time to really talk about respect and honoring boundaries.

???

No means no. To a stranger or to your fiancee or to you husband. ETA and at this point he knows the moral laws.

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If the way she said “no” was to giggle and playfully slap his hand away, it’s not unreasonable that he might have thought her “no” might have been more flirtatious than serious. If she said “no, seriously, dude, calm down” and he still persisted, I’d agree that would be more concerning.

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Also, OP, I wouldn’t be so freaked out that you experienced arousal. It sounds like you’re being careful to make sure things don’t go too far, but the fact that you’re physically attracted to your fiancé is totally understandable.

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Two questions immediately come to mind:

  • Is he Catholic and totally orthodox in the faith?
  • How influenced is he by the larger secular culture?

I am not accusing the OP of what I will describe below, but I do know that in secular society, it is seen as pretty standard to have sex by at least the third date, and to live together before marriage. Many people “hook up” to get the sexual compatibility issue out of the way at the very beginning (not to mention sex simply for the sake of sex). Staying chaste before marriage is seen as freakish. And yes, I know that orthodox Catholics are not the only people in the world who believe in chastity.

I wonder to what extent the OP’s fiancé is affected by this mindset, even if clearly she and the OP are not living in that fashion.

Also, it is entirely possible that the solitude of being together alone, and in the home where they will live in after they are married, is just too much for the fiancé to handle — he gets to thinking about what married life will be like, and lets his feelings overtake him.

Exactly…

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