Have you all noticed


#1

That when you try to explain ONE doctrine specific to Catholicism (or Orthodoxy) to a Protestant, eventually, it will lead you to trying to explain them ALL?!!! You can’t just stay on topic with the one because to fully explain it completely, one must then bring other beliefs into the explination, and I don’t know about you guys, but, I am uncomfortable doing this because I don’t want to throw too much out to my Protestant friend(s) & have to defend it all (I’ve not memorized the Bible, but, I know the points are in there). I do not want to get into there was no Bible before 397 because some just do not care. I asked my dad (Prot) “Do you know why the deutero cannonocal books were left out of the Protestant Bible?” and he said it was because they were written too late for them to be inspired. I’ve tried to explain & point out Purgatory to friends. One said that Jesus mentions Heaven & Hell (and showed me verses), but, never Purgatory (they beleive the last penny reference ISN’T refering to Purgatory & believe that we just interpret it that way.) I pointed 1 Pet 3:19 out to him, he said he’d check it out. Another one said that Jesus is probably preaching to the spirits in Hell. But, I mean, getting back to the original topic before I digressed, If one TRIES to explain Purgatory to them, then, one may have to bring up the communion of saints, and praying through them (something that they are obstinant against), and why we believe Mary is perfect & how humans CAN be perfect & blah blah blah blah blah, that they just are so indoctinated AGAINST that they cannot see it!!! It’s obvious to us, but, they just don’t think the same way. I mean, this is getting off the point of doctrine again, but, I was SHOCKED to know that anti-abort Protestants still haven’t denied all contraception.:eek: But, anyway, have you noticed how interwoven all of this is? what a foreign concept it is to them?!!! :frowning:


#2

[quote=adstrinity]I mean, this is getting off the point of doctrine again, but, I was SHOCKED to know that anti-abort Protestants still haven’t denied all contraception.:eek: But, anyway, have you noticed how interwoven all of this is? what a foreign concept it is to them?!!! :frowning:
[/quote]

I started a thread about this to see why they accept contraception. The only prots who answered had critically looked at the issue and agreed with the Catholic teaching. Most just don’t think about it and because no contraception is a Catholic doctrine it’s automatically bad. I think if they really looked critically at the issue, they’d agree with the Church. Of course, I think that goes in general to the rest of the Church’s teaching.:slight_smile:


#3

[quote=adstrinity]That when you try to explain ONE doctrine specific to Catholicism (or Orthodoxy) to a Protestant, eventually, it will lead you to trying to explain them ALL?!!! You can’t just stay on topic with the one because to fully explain it completely, one must then bring other beliefs into the explination, :frowning:
[/quote]

This is a standard tactic – when losing the argument, change the subject. It “works” because first of all, it saves the losing side from accepting what they are about to be logically pushed into accepting, and because ultimately the winning side may be caught in something they can’t explain – which will allow the losing side to say, “See? That makes everything else you’ve said wrong.”

The answer is to say, “We’re talking about X right now. If you want to discuss Y, we’ll do that later. In the meantime, let’s stay focussed on your original question until we dispose of it.”


#4

[quote=Genesis315]I started a thread about this to see why they accept contraception. The only prots who answered had critically looked at the issue and agreed with the Catholic teaching. Most just don’t think about it and because no contraception is a Catholic doctrine it’s automatically bad. I think if they really looked critically at the issue, they’d agree with the Church. Of course, I think that goes in general to the rest of the Church’s teaching.:slight_smile:
[/quote]

You know, concerning that, I half got into it yesterday with a Protestant & he just didn’t get it. He still sees nothing wrong with contraception. He’s been presented with the arguements (as well as the arguements for praying to saints), and he argues against them. I don’t want to get into it with him because I know it’ll be pointless. He can only see things his way. :frowning:


#5

:hmmm: All the books in question were written before the NT but the were written too late so were left out?

But yes, it is all intertwined. We can, with effort, pull things back to the original topic and address it to a limited amount. With family members it is more diffucult to do than with those we don’t know.

God Bless,
Maria


#6

I’ve come to find sola scriptura is more nuanced than it seems.

I sense there is sola scriptura, but then there’s some scriptura that is more sola than other scriptura, if you know what I mean.

Take away the crippling chains of their degenerate version of sola scriptura, and confusion disappears.


#7

I feel like that too adstrinity, I think that in there is where the beauty of Catholicism lies, it is all an organic whole with interconected parts. Like a beautiful symphony.


#8

You are not alone.

I actually tried to write an article and one thing led to another and I foudn myself in the middle of a jumble. I can’t explain our beliefe coherently because they are all a part of a whole.

I spoke with a co-worker the other day about our Easter celebrations and the Triduum. That led to why we need to attend Mass every Sunday, the definition of mortal vs. venial sin, etc.

I don’t think he has any idea how deep this goes and he had no idea why we really believe that missing our Sunday obligation is a mortal sin. And I couldn’t explain it in simple terms. In short, I made it sound so trite so I decided to focus on the joy I feel from attending Mass–the argument…why would you NOT want ot be in the presence of Christ? But then that leads to the Blessed Sacrament, which stems from the institution of the holy Eucharist at the Last Supper, leading to the real presence…

I didn’t get into all that but it crossed my mind in a heartbeat. I’m actually just happy that he calls me “sister” (he is Baptist), which means he at least recognizes us a Christians.

But I know exactly what you mean. There is so much interwoven that it can be like reading an Encyclopedia…one topic really relates to the next and the next and the next…and suddenly you’re not studying or discussing one thing, but the interrelatedness of the entire world in the context of a few things.

I don’t know about you, fellow Catholics…but no human or group of humans could make this stuff up.


#9

[quote=JCPhoenix]You are not alone.

I actually tried to write an article and one thing led to another and I foudn myself in the middle of a jumble. I can’t explain our beliefe coherently because they are all a part of a whole.

I spoke with a co-worker the other day about our Easter celebrations and the Triduum. That led to why we need to attend Mass every Sunday, the definition of mortal vs. venial sin, etc.

I don’t think he has any idea how deep this goes and he had no idea why we really believe that missing our Sunday obligation is a mortal sin. And I couldn’t explain it in simple terms. In short, I made it sound so trite so I decided to focus on the joy I feel from attending Mass–the argument…why would you NOT want ot be in the presence of Christ? But then that leads to the Blessed Sacrament, which stems from the institution of the holy Eucharist at the Last Supper, leading to the real presence…

I didn’t get into all that but it crossed my mind in a heartbeat. I’m actually just happy that he calls me “sister” (he is Baptist), which means he at least recognizes us a Christians.

But I know exactly what you mean. There is so much interwoven that it can be like reading an Encyclopedia…one topic really relates to the next and the next and the next…and suddenly you’re not studying or discussing one thing, but the interrelatedness of the entire world in the context of a few things.

I don’t know about you, fellow Catholics…but no human or group of humans could make this stuff up.
[/quote]

YES!!! That is EXACTLY what I mean!!! I’m glad that it’s not just me!! And, I mean, I don’t want to get into it with them because I know what & believe & why I believe it, but, cannot articulate it well enough that they cannot tear it down BUT, I don’t want to miss an oportunity to share the faith OR not look like I don’t know what I’m talking about. They really did throw the baby out with the bathwater & it is so hard (and, this is coming from an ex-Protestant) to try to explain it to them because they have been so indoctrinated with either anti-Catholic theology &/or French intellectualism, that, when we DO present what we believe, it DOES sound like it’s what they have been warned against!


#10

Just try to remember that you’re not out to win an argument, but rather, influence a soul. God can take your words, no matter how inadequate, and can use them to reach someone’s heart.

I had to consider this yesterday when I spoke with a co-worker about contraception. She said she had used NFP but due to her cycles it didn’t work and her objection was that she didn’t want 12 kids. It didn’t occurr to me at the time to ask directly, “What about what God wants?”

My words were so inadequate, and as I am not married and have no children, I know that I am seen as someone without authority even though I speak with the authority of the Church.

The sad thing is that we have to answer to Catholics, not just educate those outside the faith. It’s very disheartening when the people who theoretically should understand really don’t have a clue what this faith is all about.

May God have mercy on their souls.

The world is up for a huge change in the near future, my friends. We really need to pray for the souls that are seperated from God and we really need to work hard to help them understand.

But it’s not a debate. Our job is to drop the seeds…God will make them grow.

Hopefully He’ll also help us get our thoughts in order so we can make sense! :stuck_out_tongue:


#11

In psycho- lingo, if you can’t help yourself from telling everything, maybe you have “pressured speech.” That certainly can turn people off, so it behooves us to learn to control it; meanwhile, in some cases, there are medications that can help. :wink:

Alan


#12

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