He did not die for our sins


#1

Jesus did not die for our sins!! He died because, when given the choice, the people chose to save Barrabas, and to crucify Jesus. He died because he was rocking the boa. The Jews had a good, if somewhat precarious relationship with the romans at the time, and this “Jesus” was becoming a problem. So they wanted him out of thre way. So he died because he was a problem to the status quo, not for our sins.


#2

No, He was killed by humans for going against the status quo. His death for our sins was pre ordained by God.


#3

Today’s fallacy is the false dilemma.

– Mark L. Chance.


#4

Jesus was born sinless and lived a sinless life. At the last supper - the first Eucharist - He was able to join Himself to our sinful bodies. That’s why He died. Isn’t it obvious?


#5

Why is it obvious?? Just curious.


#6

That’s a lot of words to say you don’t believe in Christianity. :rolleyes:

BTW, did Jesus even exist? Did he say and do the things recorded in the bible? I assume you think he did exist, or you wouldn’t have posted what you did.


#7

For Bible believers…

Sometimes we forget what the cross was made of.

Wood.

From a tree.

At the begining of Genesis we remember another tree.

Genesis 3:17
Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.

Adam disobeyed God’s command to not eat from the tree. The first sin. We call Original Sin.This sin is called original because it comes down to us through our origin, or descent, from Adam.

**Romans 5:12 **
Therefore as through **one man **sin entered into the world and through sin death, and thus death has passed unto **all men **because all have sinned.

The chief punishments of Adam which we inherit through original sin are: death, suffering, ignorance, and a strong inclination to sin.

Wisdom 2:24
But, by the envy of the devil, death came into the world.

**Genesis 3:19 **
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth, out of which thou wast taken; for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return.

Because of Adam’s sin heaven’s doors were closed to us.God the Father promised us someone who would redeem us.

**Genesis 3:15 **
I will put enmities between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed; he shall crush your head, and you shall lie in wait his heel.

Jesus the Christ bore all the sins of the world and sacrificed His life for us. He redeemed us.And God opened the doors to heaven for us.

1 Peter 2:24
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse** for us**–for it is written, “**CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”-- **

1 Corinthians 15:3
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that **Christ died for our sins **according to the Scriptures,

It had been written in the Old Testament that …

Deuteronomy 21:22
"If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree,

Well Jesus was carrying all our sins on His body.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Acts 10:39
"We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.

Through a tree came death, Adam’s sin. And through a tree came life, Jesus’ crucifixion

The Bible is our salvation history.

The New Testament is concealed in the Old.
And the Old Testament is revealed in the New.


#8

Nice try fellowchristian, but all the scripture quoting will not work on the OP.

Anything in the OT is considered mythology just as Homer’s works.

Also his reading of the NT excludes everything after the Gospels because those are just personal letters to specific and general churches and does not represent facts of events.

This person reads the Gospels from a historical viewpoint. IE any personal commentary by the author is excluded from consideration.

So if you want to reach this person, anyone will have to do so from the the 4 gospels only and only those verses that pertain to alledged historical events.


#9

“rocking the boa” :slight_smile: (Typo, I assume)

Take out the red highlited words, and historically speaking, you’re correct. Theologically, you’re all wet. :wink:


#10

Apologies for the typo!!:blush:

It’s not so much that I dont believe in christianity, I Have issues with a few aspects of the faith. I dont dispute jesus existed, I just think there is so much more to learn about his life. the stories of him living in India, and travelling the silk road.


#11

Do you believe he is God Incarnate?

If Jesus was God Incarnate and his death served no purpose, why did he let himself be killed by his creatures? Why did he even become Incarnate? He could have told us anything he wanted to tell us through the use of prophets.


#12

Where did you get this information from?


#13

There is a book “jesus Lived In India” I will have to get back to you on the author and nature of the book.


#14

Jesus lived in India by Holger Kersten, first published in 1983. The nature of the book is that the book is a bunch of ahistorical nonsense penned by an extremely gullible rank amateur researcher.

– Mark L. Chance.


#15

There’s that one and then there’s The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ by Levi Dowling.

These types of books and stories are everywhere!

:harp:


#16

MAGISTERFAUST: if you like to read good books try C.S.LEWIS , MERE CHRISTIANITY that book might enlighten you or challange your beliefs good luck in your journey…


#17

So you are willing to disregard 2000 years of belief ( not to include the hundreds of people who died for their belief in Jesus) for something that might have been written 20 years ago. Now that is interesting.


#18

Jesus could have saved himself. Only the Romans had the ability to kill him, and he remained silent. He decided to do the father’s will and allow himself to be crucified.


#19

I was being sarcastic. I realise it’s not obvious - well, it’s not obvious to the unbeliever.

But, just because it’s not obvious, it doesn’t mean Christians are foolish. We have a long history and we’ve had a lot of time to think about Jesus and His ministry. We’re convinced He died for our sins. Not only do our theologians - who have dedicated their lives to Jesus - agree , but the ancient prophets who foretold the story of Jesus in prophecy also agree.

So, to make claims such as “he died because he was a problem to the status quo, not for our sin” is a real insult to His apostles that died because of their witness to the risen Jesus.

I think you need to trust the Catholic Church more.


#20

Do you believe Jesus was a good man, Magister?

:shrug:


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