Heaven and Hell


#1

If you go to Heaven, but your loved ones go to Hell, would you be heartbroken? If so, how can Heaven really be “heaven” if you’re constantly sad thinking of your loved ones in eternal agony?


#2

Both words, “heartbroken” and “heaven” cannot be in the same sentence. In Heaven we will be eternally happy, fulfilled, etc. There will be no grief over lost loved ones there. In the presence of the Almighty God, nothing will be lacking. Our cups will be full.


#3

In the damned, there is nothing left to love. The damned have utterly rejected God. All goodness lies in God. The damned are “outside the presence of God” because they have no goodness whatsoever left in them. There is pity for those that are falling into Hell on Earth. For them, there is pity, tears, prayers, sacrifices and great suffering. There is good still in them however suppressed, and no matter how bad a person becomes on Earth, they will never lose God’s love.

People in Hell have utterly and finally rejected God’s love, so God’s love is no longer in any way in them. Therefore they are completely evil like the demons. Though the complete evil of damned humans is not so great as that of demons, because we by nature are lower than the angels. But because they have completely rejected God (and in so doing, have rejected all goodness, as all goodness is in God), there can be no pity for the damned.

Just as those on Earth who choose God are perfected in goodness by the time they reach Heaven, their relationships with God complete so that there is no sin left in them, the abandoning of God by those that choose to reject Him in life is completed by the time they reach Hell. When you die, your fate is decided. You are confirmed in what you have chosen and receive the completeness of what you sought in life. If you sought death, you receive the completeness of death. If you sought life, you receive the completeness of life. A man sows what he reaps.


#4

Really? So if your loved ones committed one mortal sin right before dieing and were sent to hell for eternity, you wouldn’t be the least bit sad?


#5

Anyone’s loved ones in Hell are no longer their loved ones as they knew them. They would be unrecognizeable – only the worst parts of who they are recognizable – their souls would be like the souls of demons. Worse infinitely than the worst thing you could imagine on Earth.

Could you love evil? Do you think it could ever be good to love evil? God says in the Psalms, “Hate what is evil, love what is good.” In the damned, there is nothing whatsoever left to love, no goodness at all. Could you love Satan? He once was an angel, surely loved deeply by all in Heaven. But he fell. He now is the Devil in which no good resides. The damned are not like regular people on Earth just being tortured forever. They are completed in the evil they chose in life. As St. Paul says, those who sow in sin will reap death. You know people who sow in sin. You don’t know people that are in death. You don’t have anyone in your acquaintance who has reaped what he sowed. This is Hell. It’s not like what you’re thinking at all. It’s a different, completed state of existence, completed in loss and death, just as Heaven is completeness in fullness and life.


#6

In heaven (which I pray we shall all attain), we will no longer be constrained by the limited perspective we have on earth, but will have more of a “God’s-eye” view of things. God will be the supreme object of our love, and our wills shall be fully conformed to His. And in heaven, we will know to an absolute certainty that which we cannot even guess at on earth. We will pierce the veils of appearances and penetrate to the truth in its fullness.

In heaven, we will clearly see and fully realize that those who are in hell are there entirely through their own fault, and because they chose to go there. We will see how God pursued them with His graces during their lives on earth, and all the opportunities He gave them to save their souls, and we will see how they rejected Him over and over again. We will see the magnitude of their pride and their folly, and how they made themselves the enemies of the good God Who loved and created them. As our will and our love will be submerged in God, we shall be content to see the justice that overtakes His enemies.


#7

I see this kind of rhetoric all the time, but it doesn’t seem to fit together.

On the one hand, we are assured that only the truly evil go to hell. There is absolutely no good left in them at all. None. The live with Satan and enjoy the eternal pain and enjoy seeing other people experience the same pain.

But on the other hand, we are told to keep constant guard because hell is just a heartbeat away. Jesus says that the gate is narrow and few pass through. Catholic theology says that committing one mortal sin before dieing will land a person right in hell. It is a very easy place to get to.

No, I wouldn’t love evil. But if my loved one had truly turned to a state of pure evil, (which I really can’t even imagine), I would be devastated. I don’t see how anybody else wouldn’t be.


#8

And you wouldn’t be upset, or sad at all?

You would be completely happy being told they got what they deserved?


#9

Read my post again. I think I answered these questions.


#10

There is no inconsistency here. Life on Earth is a journey. At death, people reach the destination, receiving just what they chose in life. If they chose separation from God, they receive the completeness of separation from God. If they chose union with Him, they receive the completeness of that union. A seed that goes into the ground looks nothing like what comes out. Yet it is the same plant.

[quote=Awake]No, I wouldn’t love evil. But if my loved one had truly turned to a state of pure evil, (which I really can’t even imagine), I would be devastated. I don’t see how anybody else wouldn’t be.
[/quote]

That is why God sent His Son to die on the Cross for all of us. That is why the Virgin Mary at La Salette wept many tears, and at Fatima spoke of those in Hell to plea with people to turn from their darkness. She provided them another devotion then to save them from Hell and proved her power with a sign in the heavens witnessed by tens of thousands of people. A few decades later, she appeared in Cairo, Egypt, and was seen for about three years by a church in radiant light, surrounded by angels, doves and clouds of luminous incense, by millions of people. She was photographed by the international press and seen by the president of Egypt himself. She stood silent though, IMO in grief, proving God’s reality again in the most dramatic terms and yet silently watching as the world gave itself to Hell.

God is devastated to see people on Earth going to Hell. His Heart yearns for them and is not satisfied because they refuse to unite themselves to His love.

People in Hell are not pitied. They cannot be. As you say, you can’t love evil, or at least you couldn’t while still remaining good. People going to Hell are loved with all God’s heart, which is why He has shown visions to the saints of the tears shed in Heaven for those pouring down into Hell of their own choice, refusing and ignoring all God’s easily available power to save all the way.

Yes, Hell is an easy place to get to. However, that is no cause to despair. God’s power is vastly sufficient to protect those that seek Him. In the last few centuries, He has poured out super-abundant graces to preserve His faithful. Key examples:

  1. The Divine Mercy devotion
  2. The Miraculous Medal devotion
  3. The Brown Scapular devotion
  4. The Immaculate Heart 5 Saturdays devotion
  5. The Sacred Heart 9 Fridays devotion
  6. The Daily Rosary
  7. The Daily Mass
  8. The Perfect Devotion to Jesus through Mary (according to the method of St. Louis de Montfort)

I can’t think of more at the moment, but this is a great list of devotions laypeople can participate in, devotions easily supplemented by fasts or other disciplines for seeking God. God has been pouring out incredible amounts of grace, especially in the last few centuries because of all the sin and unbelief. We are super-abundantly blessed. We have more than enough power to reach Heaven. But so many people just aren’t seeking God. They prefer to live in the world and of the world.

So many people post on CAF about their fears and struggles. I read their posts and in almost every case, I feel no fear for them, because they are fighting for God. As long as they are trying, they are covered with Christ’s grace and unlikely to see Hell. It is for people that don’t seek God, or insist on justifying their evil ways, that I feel fear.

God keeps pouring out more and more grace, and many people refuse to try to partake of it or seek God further. He blesses them and by their deeds they curse Him. The way to Heaven is full of trials that perfect the soul. But it also is full of all the grace and strength anyone needs to persevere to the end. That grace, especially by now, is super-abundantly released. People just don’t look for it, don’t seek it, don’t pay any attention and prefer their own ways without God. They seek “something” but their hunger isn’t sated because they don’t look to the right source, the Living Bread from Heaven.


#11

I think this is a good explanation, at least for my limited understanding. But, again, what we can comprehend in this life will be so overshadowed in the next. We just have to trust in God’s infinite love, mercy and justice, knowing that we shall see things clearly in the next life.

God bless,
Dan


#12

Everything truly good in a relative is from God, and when one sees God properly and directly first and last, one sees all the good in the relative is God’s good.

And so, if God chooses to take that relative away, it is acceptable, because you still have God. But if you reject God’s decision, and choose the relative instead of God, then you have neither God, nor the good that is in the relative in its true and proper goodness.

When you love God above all else, which is the only proper and natural state of being for a soul, if you lose a relative to Hell, you accept God’s will completely, because while it would be better for that relative to have chosen differently, it is still a choice that God balances out so that that justice is done, and you love God and his goodness and so you could not bear to -not see justice done- and his incredible, ineffable, goodness presented with something that was contradictory to it like your sinful relative. In fact, your relative, who is justly condemned to Hell, despite the torments thereof, could not bear to be elsewhere, for that would be an even greater torment, to somehow contradict justice. So even Hell, is a mercy, in comparison, though it is unimaginably torturous.

It is important to realize we live here in an unnatural state, unnaturally attached to lesser good directly, rather than finding God first and last and appreciating them for their relation to Him. We cannot maintain this state of being and enter into perfect happiness, we can feel easily how it is not something appropriate to it.

‘You well know that I preferred his company to all the delights of the world. But since it has pleased You to take him from me, I accept Your will completely.’

St. Elizabeth (on the death of her husband)


#13

I have to admit, when I think of even the possibility of someone I know, especially someone I love like a family member or a friend, going to hell, that does terrify me. I know that in hell people lose their God-given identity and lose everything that made them human…they become evil like the demons. But of course the thought of this happening to anyone I know is scary beyond words!! :frowning: that’s why I think we should do all we can to help rescue souls, we should pray for them and offer sacrifices…this DOES work! (remember St Monica and St Augustine?) you can even pray for a person who already died. Don’t lose hope.

If I went to Heaven and found out that someone I love went to hell… yes I do believe I would be devastated, BUT, God would comfort us. He WOULD give us everything we need. We would be filled with His love, peace, and His joy. Nothing would be able to take that away. If the joy of Heaven was lessened because of hell…than would not evil have the last word?? why should evil always destroy goodness? no, the fact that there’s a hell, would not alter our experience of Heaven at all. God would comfort us in the best possible way and “wipe all tears from our eyes”. EVEN THOUGH it IS very sad that souls go to hell…Jesus also mourns for every lost soul! the gates out of hell are closed from the inside…

I recommend perhaps reading CS Lewis’ “the Great Divorce”. It helped me understand the question of heaven and hell better, and come to terms with it.

God bless


#14

AMEN!!! :thumbsup:


#15

The Christian faith is rooted in a narrative, the narrative of the Gospels. You can also find it in Dante’s creation which has a wonderful creation of heaven and hell both with their respective “freedoms.”

Read this reflection here on an essay by Anthony Esalen who is a translator of Dante’s Divine Comedy

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/07/31/the-freedom-of-heaven-the-freedom-of-hell/

In Christ

dj


#16

i have had this thought/feeling SO many times…

but i think God just wipes out our memory or somethihg… he would kind of have to… right??

either that… or God just figures we will adjust to his form of justice… and let go of our own… in Purgatory… where he re-programs us… :smiley:


#17

You won’t feel sorry for the damned, because in the damned, there is nothing left to love. The damned have utterly rejected God. All goodness lies in God. The damned are “outside the presence of God” because they have no goodness whatsoever left in them. There is pity for those that are falling into Hell on Earth. For them, there is pity, tears, prayers, sacrifices and great suffering. There is good still in them however suppressed, and no matter how bad a person becomes on Earth, they will never lose God’s love.

People in Hell have utterly and finally rejected God’s love, so God’s love is no longer in any way in them. Therefore they are completely evil like the demons. Though the complete evil of damned humans is not so great as that of demons, because we by nature are lower than the angels. But because they have completely rejected God (and in so doing, have rejected all goodness, as all goodness is in God), there can be no pity for the damned.

Just as those on Earth who choose God are perfected in goodness by the time they reach Heaven, their relationships with God complete so that there is no sin left in them, the abandoning of God by those that choose to reject Him in life is completed by the time they reach Hell. When you die, your fate is decided. You are confirmed in what you have chosen and receive the completeness of what you sought in life. If you sought death, you receive the completeness of death. If you sought life, you receive the completeness of life. A man sows what he reaps.


#18

i whole-heartedly agree… and like the words you chose…

only one thing, though… A lot of people think that only really hideous people go to Hell… Hilter, Stalin, etc…

but Jesus saidthat even those who do “mighty deeds” in his name will be rejected… Then there’s St Lk 13:24…

Of course, we don’t know if they are *forever *rejected or temporarily (Purgatory) … :confused: Maybe the Church knows this???

but anyhow… i don’t feel like taking a chance … :eek: (not that i am tempted to any great evil anyway… well… OK… sometimes i am tempted … but not enough to throw away God…which iswhat happens every time we sin, God can’t be where there is great sin… Or i should say we cannot completely BE with Him when there is sin in our lives…

and it has never happened that a part of a person went to heaven while the other part went to Hell… (presumably? :D)…

:hmmm:


closed #19

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