Heaven Ready?


#1

I’ve asked this Purgatory question a number of times on this and on another forum; still, no one has attempted to provide an answer. Maybe it’s a stupid question… Anyway, Revelation 21:27 tells us…

(MKJV)[size=2]* And there shall in no way enter into it anything that defiles, or any making an abomination or a lie; but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.*[/size]

[size=2]The question: When does it happen? If we are sinners now and until the moment we die then when do we become clean enough to enter Heaven?[/size]

[size=2]I’d appreciate contextual scriptural references to suport your opinion.
[/size]


#2

eh??

purgatory is where sins are removed, as you said in your poll, no?


#3

[quote=Magicsilence]eh??

purgatory is where sins are removed, as you said in your poll, no?
[/quote]

Well, it was my first poll (and thread)… :o

What I was looking for were the thoughts of those folks who don’t believe in Purgatory. What I wanted to know from them is when and how are we made clean to enter Heaven.


#4

You must first put all your faith in Christ to save your soul. Second, you should attend mass regularly and receive Christ for the feeding of your soul. If you sin, confess it to God or if it is serious go to your priest and give a good confession to father to receive absolution. This is so important. For when one gains absolution, one at that moment in time is absolved from all sin. Isn’t that wonderful? I think it is.

                              Unfortunately, we do not know when we shall die, whether by an accident, disease or a heart attack. But we all will die. The problem is, is that no matter how faithful we may be, we will die with some remaining sin, whether in thought, word or deed. This sin or sins must be cleansed after our death. This is where purgatory comes in. Purgatory is properly understood as a process, rather than a place. It is a process by which we become purified of all remaining sins and so can enter into heaven. I believe this transpires at the passing of the soul into the light between this world and the next. 

                                 Many people who have had out of the body experiences have passed through this light before seeing their former loved ones or the Lord for that matter. This "light" I believe is the purifying source for our souls when we cross over. This is my personal belief. I hope I have helped you.

#5

I have several conjectures as to what the light may be.

It may be as simple as a hallucination deriving from what people expect to see when they die. In other words, we hear about “going to the light” and about heaven as this bright place all the time that people’s minds may create this images when they “think” they’re dying or something.

It may be what justcatholic said.

It may be Satan tempting people in some way, making one last effort to steal souls away.

It may be Christ offering people salvation that one final time before their fate is decided (as some theologians have speculated Christ does at death).

It may be lots of things.


#6

Here’s a really good post on Purgatory


#7

[quote=Wildgraywolf]Well, it was my first poll (and thread)… :o

What I was looking for were the thoughts of those folks who don’t believe in Purgatory. What I wanted to know from them is when and how are we made clean to enter Heaven.
[/quote]

They are saved, washed in the blood of the lamb, obtaining forgiveness of all sin past, present and future at the moment they recite the sinners prayer. Don’t ask them where that is in the bible though.


#8

Heaven is an “acquired taste.” In the sense that even good people will have to get acclamated to it. Moses looked sandblasted after the Lord appeared to him. During the Transfiguration the disciples fell (overwhelmed). When angels appear invariably they’ll say: Do not fear. It must be a sight to behold. Imagine them in the billions!!! So for those of us in the muck here on earth but fortunate enough to land in purgatory…this is the place we actually get the proper bath so that the purity and intensity of heaven doesn’t disintigrate us.

This is not by any means dogma but it makes sense to anyone who’s walked out of a movie theatre to the mid afternoon sun.

Great to have the forum back.

in XT.


#9

Well this thread turned out to be a REAL disappointment…

Everyone can agree we are all sinners right now, today and everyone can agree that nothing unclean, impure enters heaven so, something must happen between dying and passing through the Pearly Gates, but whatever that something is according to Protestant theology at least; it can’t possibly be Purgatory.

All of the criticisms and passionate objections that Purgatory doesn’t exit, it isn’t biblical, it’s an invented Catholic doctrine, it’s a way for the Catholic Church to make money and on and on… No one has put fourth any better explanation, biblical or otherwise. My thanks to Ignatius (a Catholic) for providing at least SOME insight into the Protestant belief.

Is there really any objection to Purgatory or is the objection simply because it’s a Catholic doctrine and not given any further thought?

Side Note:

[quote=Ignatius]They are saved, washed in the blood of the lamb, obtaining forgiveness of all sin past, present and future at the moment they recite the sinners prayer.
[/quote]

If this belief is accurate it makes me wonder why there is so much objection to Mary’s living of a sinless life…

[quote=Ignatius]…they recite the sinners prayer. Don’t ask them where that is in the bible though.
[/quote]

Yeah, I know… My father-in-law spent close to 45 minutes explaining it to me. It was a mix and match of bible verses starting from the Old Testament onward and the comment he made that Jesus didn’t explain things very well and that’s why He chose St. Paul to speak for Him an not one of the Apostles.


#10

Phillipians 3:21

He will transfigure our humble bodies, and give them a form like that of his own glorious body, by that power which enables him to make all things subject to himself.


#11

[quote=HOMEWARD-BOUND]Phillipians 3:21

He will transfigure our humble bodies, and give them a form like that of his own glorious body, by that power which enables him to make all things subject to himself.
[/quote]

I like your choice of verses - beautiful… After I read that it occured to me that you gotta be a Catholic. And so says your profile!

Also, I’m honored that you chose to make your first CA post on my thread!

**WELCOME TO THE FORUM! :clapping: **


#12

I am not sure exactly what you are asking for but this thought comes to mind.

We are much more easily “cleansed” of our sins if we have practice forgiveness of others.

Matthew Chapter 6

"If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you.

But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions."

Just like it says in the Our Father.

Jesus repeats the idea in plan words and in parables in numberous places.

Forgiveness of our sins will come much more easily and quickly if we practice forgiveness of others.

peace.

-Jim


#13

I don’t know if this is what other people call “The sinner’s prayer” but it works for me. From the 18th chapter of Luke:

“Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector.
11
The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity–greedy, dishonest, adulterous–or even like this tax collector.
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I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.'
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But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, 'O God be merciful to me a sinner .'
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I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

With all due respect to your father-in-law, I find Jesus to be much easier to understand than Paul. Sometimes his teachers are difficult to accept but they are easy enough to understand.

Peace

-Jim


#14

[quote=trogiah]I am not sure exactly what you are asking for…

-Jim
[/quote]

What I was looking for was when does a person satisfy the biblical requirement that “nothing unclean enters heaven”. Either we are perfectly spotless at the moment we die or become perfectly spotless before entering heaven.

If someone dosen’t believe in Purgatory then when is that biblical requirement satisified? Are they are in a state of perfect grace now or not?


#15

[quote=trogiah]With all due respect to your father-in-law, I find Jesus to be much easier to understand than Paul. Sometimes his teachers are difficult to accept but they are easy enough to understand.

Peace

-Jim
[/quote]

Me too :thumbsup:


#16

[quote=Wildgraywolf]What I was looking for was when does a person satisfy the biblical requirement that “nothing unclean enters heaven”. Either we are perfectly spotless at the moment we die or become perfectly spotless before entering heaven.

If someone dosen’t believe in Purgatory then when is that biblical requirement satisified? Are they are in a state of perfect grace now or not?
[/quote]

I am thinking that most of our conceptions of time probably make answering a when question like that very difficult. But I am going to try this for an answer:

We get to heaven when we recognize all our faults and are able to humbly ask forgiveness of God. This will take less “time” if we have practiced forgiveness of others during our life.

peace
-Jim


#17

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