Heaven, Souls, Ressurection of the body, and time


#1

1 When a person dies, and their soul goes to heaven, it is with God.
2 God is outside of time.
3 Then the soul is also outside of time, including it’s earthly birth and death.

How do 1 & 3 work together?

At the “End of Time” all souls will be reuinted with their earthly bodies in the ressurection. Will time start again? How can our bodies, with their movements, exist outside of time?


#2

[quote=nobody]1 When a person dies, and their soul goes to heaven, it is with God.
[/quote]

No. When a person dies their soul is seperated from their body and is present before God to be judged in the particular judgement.

No. God is not subject to time, not limited to time. He is everywhere.

No. The human soul is created together with the body at conception in this world and both are subject to the properties of our existance here in this world. At death the soul is seperated from the body and is removed from this world.

[quote=nobody]How do 1 & 3 work together?
[/quote]

Perfectly. Study and believe the Catholic faith.

[quote=nobody]At the “End of Time” all souls will be reuinted with their earthly bodies in the ressurection. Will time start again? How can our bodies, with their movements, exist outside of time?
[/quote]

We actually do not know. At the end of time when the bodies of the just and of the damned are ressurected and rejoined with the soul the damned will depart forever into the lake of fire created for Satan, his angels and those who refuse to believe the Holy Catholic Faith. Those who are just will live forever with God in heaven and there will be a new heaven and a new earth. You are limiting your thinking to this physical world and its boundaries and also a false logic, beginning with death and not life.

Thats my opinion anyway.

Ken


#3

[quote=nobody]1 When a person dies, and their soul goes to heaven, it is with God.
2 God is outside of time.
3 Then the soul is also outside of time, including it’s earthly birth and death.

How do 1 & 3 work together?

At the “End of Time” all souls will be reuinted with their earthly bodies in the ressurection. Will time start again? How can our bodies, with their movements, exist outside of time?
[/quote]

Hey nobody, I struggled with this one for a while as well. I used to wonder, so, if we’re outside of time when we’re with God … does that mean that my soul in Heaven (presuming I end up there) is right now capable of watching itself while still on Earth??? Of course, the answer would be no, but I didn’t understand why. Here’s a paragraph from Peter Kreeft in the Summa of the Summa, where Aquinas is writing about eternity:

“We think of eternity as negative, as excluding time (for “e-ternal” means, after all, “not-temporal”); but in objective fact, God’s eternity is positive and includes all times, for it can lack nothing actual, positive, and perfect that time contains. A remote parallel: the mind of an author contains, at once, all his characters and the events of his plot.”

It isn’t that God isn’t part of time, but rather that he is in every part of time simultaneously. Both Aquinas and Kreeft, in his analysis, write about how we must understand the difference between eternity and time. God is eternal - he has always existed and always will, but this doesn’t mean that there isn’t some chronology at work. For instance, God, in the person of Jesus, did not exist with a human nature until after his conception. So, will there be “time” after death - I don’t think there will be time in the way we understand it now, where we look at our watches and say, “wow, another year just went by”, because years and days and months are ways of marking our progress toward or away from an event. In heaven, there might certainly be a sequence of events - for instance, if I say “Holy, holy, holy” in heaven, there is a definite order, in that one holy came before another and after a different one, but we will no longer use this sequence as any time of measurement. Furthermore, at the culmination of “time”, there will be no further progression or regression as we are in our most perfect states and cannot deteriorate (as nothing in Heaven will) …

Okay, I’m rambling, probably made no sense, and need to move on. I’m sure I didn’t help, but it was fun writing about, and I’m curious to see what others say (and correct me on). I also just picked up “Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Heaven” by Kreeft, and am looking forward to seeing him write about some of these topics. He just blows me away.


#4

Thank you for your replies.

Ken, I think you may have have misinterpreted my question (I wasn’t clear enough). Let’s assume this is a saint’s soul, so that we know the soul did go to heaven. When I said that God is outside of time, I did mean what you were saying about God being not limited to time. When a soul is in heaven, it is said that the soul can “see” God: the beatific vision. Therefore, the soul cannot be limited to time, either. Yet, the soul is said to have had a beginning, when the body was conceived in the mother. I’m trying to understand how these two states of being can be reconciled with eachother.

Awfulthings, I think you did understand where I was coming from: the thought of a soul in heaven being able to “watch” itself on earth - yep, that was in my thought-struggle. I like alot of what you said. I do have Aquias books on my shelf, but haven’t gotten to it yet. You said their must be some sort of chronology at work, but how can a chronology exist without time?


#5

Hi Nobody,

When the soul is united to the body, it forms one unit, a human person, with the body,. The whole human person, of which the soul is a constituting part, is in time. Just like Jesus, though divine in his person, being united to our humanity was subject to all the vagaries of humanity, so the soul, though spiritual and thus by itself outside of time, is by its unity with the body, in time.

Verbum


#6

No. When a person dies their soul is seperated from their body and is present before God to be judged in the particular judgement.

Just to be a pest: when a person dies, their soul isnt present before God, thats saved untill you get to heaven. When you die your soul will experience God in a similar way that you would now, except that there is no doubt or (satanicly originated) fear involved…

Originally Posted by nobody
At the “End of Time” all souls will be reuinted with their earthly bodies in the ressurection. Will time start again? How can our bodies, with their movements, exist outside of time?

Well, “End of Time” probably isnt the best way of saying it, because time wont cease, just earth as we know it… but at that time, all the fun stuff mentioned in Revelation will come about, and (within the obvious ‘we cant possibly know’) earth and heaven will be created new as one unit, and well, we will exist forever, it should be just like earth, but perfect, time will ‘kinda’ start again as in we just wont care anymore about what happened on earth the first time…we will basically go back to the original Garden of Eden, and live tere for eternity…
i hope this kinda made sense and wasnt schismatic… :cool:


#7

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