Heaven

The priest on The New Theological Movememt Blogspot said that Heave. In a glorified place but that this isn’t a teaching of the Church but his personal opinion. Is it a glorified place where Jesus and Mary’s glorified bodies are?

Theological opinion is that we will ALL have “glorified” bodies which will inhabit heaven. Jesus appeared to the disciples in his “glorified” body. But we have absolutely no idea what properties such a “body” has.

And we cannot even conceive what heaven is like. We might like to think of it as a place where the pizza buffet is always stocked, and all of our lost pets are gathered about our feet. But heaven is not anything like a “really great version of our earthly existence.”

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 2:9[/BIBLEDRB]

We cannot even imagine what it is like (and I can imagine a lot).

The priest in my RCIA class said explaining heaven to us is like explaining the world to an unborn baby. Without references there is no way it can be done and it just confuses us.

Do you happen to have a link to that blog, Faith? I went to the website but couldn’t find it in the latest blogs. I would like to read the whole thing.

newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2010/08/where-was-mary-assumed-to.html?m=1

newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2013/05/does-christ-look-down-upon-us-from.html

Thank you.

The priest on The New Theological Movememt Blogspot said that Heave. In a glorified place but that this isn’t a teaching of the Church but his personal opinion. Is it a glorified place where Jesus and Mary’s glorified bodies are?

The Church does teach that the bodies of Jesus and Mary are glorified, so I’m presuming the part the author considers his personal opinion would have to do with his particular description of heaven (as glorified “place”). As he says, there is no dogmatic teaching by the Church regarding the exact nature of heaven. (Not sure if “nature” is the right word to use or not.)

If you haven’t read the section on “Heaven” in the CCC (#1023 - 1029), here’s a link:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P2M.HTM#62

I emailed my pastor about this and at first he said that what’s written under the heading, Is Heaven a Place? “reflects Church teaching”. In his second email he said that this article is an attempt by someone “trying to explain Heaven, which is impossible.” He said that what this priest is wrote is " not heretical" but “another attempt to explain the explicable.” Then he told me to “let it go and just believe.”

Is Heaven a glorified place or not? And is it in line with Church teaching or not? Is it ok for us to envision and describe Heaven as this priest blogger described it?

“eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him.” (1 Cor 2:9)

Heaven is a complete reality that we had not ever encountered yet. On earth, every present moment is an imperfection by virtue that it passes on to the next and does not stand unchanged in a quality of what truth is.

In heaven things end at their perfection, so that there is no more experience of potential and opportunity. All is pure actually in heaven, and a thereby a complete reality that by which bodies are no longer consider the bodies of potential or of an imperfect matter. What we long for now, is complete communion, complete actuality. Happiness consists in the knowledge of God, and that is in a perfect communion of what the mind is made for. For now, we know God by remembering - “Do this in commemoration of me” (Lk 22:19) This is in the context of the potential, these imperfect moments can only commemorate the truth as a subject. In heaven it is pure actuality and the bodies will be conformed to the Lord in that pure actuality, while now our bodies have the potential of our disaster. “He that shall overcome, shall not be hurt by the second death.” (Rev 2:11) “But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.” (1 Cor 9:27)

John Paul II taught the church that freedom has an element of risk. We have to face this risk by the cross of Christ. The name of Jesus means God saves. We do things on earth in the name of Christ, but what we do is imperfect yet the name of Jesus is the name of perfection. We are saved by our disaster, the mature among us face this disaster and answer it with love, and become souls that our judged by the Word of God as the perfect element to the potential of our peril. This is made complete, we are made aware of it in heaven and live it eternally in every thing we are, hence a glorified body in pure actual awareness of what God saves us in ourselves in communion.

I like Pope Benedict’s sentiment in Jeus of Nazareth where he stated that “God is heaven”. God is our source of eternal peace, well-being, limitless happiness. Wherever He is, known directly, there is heaven.

But is it a glorified place befitting a changed, glorified body…or what?

I’ve been Googling a lot tonight, trying to find the answer to my question but whenever I look up if Heaven is a glorified place, other than the link I provided earlier, all I keep coming up with is glorified bodies in Heaven. Can someone help?

You won’t find a definitive answer one way or the other - the Catholic Church hasn’t given one.

Here is what Father Ryan Erlenbush wrote:
Now do not think that John Paul II had contradicted his teacher when he said that heaven is not a physical place in the clouds! Garrigou-Lagrange and the great Pontiff are both getting at the same point: Heaven is first and foremost union with God; secondarily, heaven is the place where the bodies of Jesus and Mary abide, but this ‘place’ is not like every other place we think of – its relation to our universe is not clear. Glorified bodies are very different than non-glorified bodies (though they are essentially the same). A glorified body does not move and take up space in exactly the same way as a non-glorified body does. Still, the glorified bodies of Jesus and Mary are somewhere, but this ‘somewhere’ will necessarily be a ‘place’ which is ‘glorified’ – just as the glorified body is different from non-glorified body, it resides in a ‘glorified place’ which is different from a non-glorified physical place. [This is my own reasoning and not an official Church teaching.]What he says does not contradict any Church teaching so you are free to envision it as he describes it.

Personally, when it comes to envisioning, I like the descriptions St. John the Evangelist gives of his vision in the Book of Revelation:
Rev. 4:2-6 At once I was in the Spirit, and lo, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne! And he who sat there appeared like jasper and carnelian, and round the throne was a rainbow that looked like an emerald. Round the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clad in white garments, with golden crowns upon their heads. From the throne issue flashes of lightning, and voices and peals of thunder, and before the throne burn seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God; and before the throne there is as it were a sea of glass, like crystal…

Rev 21:10 And in the Spirit he carried me away to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 21:11 having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 21:12 It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed; 21:13 on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. …21:22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. 21:23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine upon it, for the glory of God is its light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 21:24 By its light shall the nations walk; and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory into it, 21:25 and its gates shall never be shut by day – and there shall be no night there; …22:1 Then he showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 22:2 through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 22:3 There shall no more be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and his servants shall worship him; 22:4 they shall see his face, and his name shall be on their foreheads. 22:5 And night shall be no more; they need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Are you sure we 're free to think of heaven as a “glorified place” and that it doesn’t contradict CC teaching? After the two emails from my pastor, I’m not sure if he agrees with that or not.

What are some possibilities that are acceptable to the Church?
Also, does the majority or minority of physicists believe we live in a multimeter? And if so, could Heaven be there?

The Church does not teach that ANYTHING that we can even IMAGINE is comparable to heaven. It is NOT an all-night pizza buffet with free beer.

Also, does the majority or minority of physicists believe we live in a multimeter? And if so, could Heaven be there?

A multimeter? Do you mean a micrometer (a device to measure distance?) Or a multi-meter (a device to measure voltage and resistance?)

Or, do you mean a “multiverse” - a hypothetical physics model that supposes that EVERY quantum possibility (which numbers in the billions of billions (etc) per second) spawns an entire alternate universe). Such a physical model has been called “ontologically extravagant,” but we have no math to completely discredit it. But it is far less likely than the full adaption of the holographic principle (which seems far more mathematically compatible, as, indeed, major parts of it are considered settled fact within the scientific community).

Please define your terms. And, realize that some of us who participate on this Forum are educated and informed about the latest developments in quantum theory.

Haha. MultiVERSE. My kindle changed my word.

I don’t know what a holographic principal is, but could heaven be there?

And could heaven be a glorified place?

I understand that, but does the CC allow us to believe heaven is a glorified place, like that one priest- blogger suggested or it it incompatible with Church teaching? After emailing my pastor, I’m unsure, though he did say believing that isn’t heresay.

The Holographic Principle was most notably expounded by the Dutch Nobel-Laurite (1999 Nobel Prize) physicist Gerard 't Hooft

The idea was later expanded upon by the physicist Leonard Susskind.

While parts of this idea are accepted as settled science, the logical conclusions of the idea are not. The conclusion of the idea is basically that all of three-dimensional space which we occupy (which is often expressed as 3+1 dimensional space, where time is the “+1” dimension, but is not properly a “fourth” dimension) is REALLY a two-dimensional (plus 1 dimension) “hologram.”

Just as a 3D hologram is described by a combination of two-dimensional definitions, all of space and reality that we know is just a “hologram” described by definitions that could be simply be equated as “words” (“bits” of information, circumscribed about a “boundary layer” of data that describes us, but which we can never quite reach because our efforts to reach that boundary contribute to our own self-knowledge, meaning the boundary is ever expanding as our knowledge of it increases).

Where have I heard this before? Long before Nobel-laureate physicists? Oh, yeah, now I remember:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. [John 1:1-5]

I don’t know what religion Gerard T’hooft was (he was Dutch, and probably not Catholic). I DO know that his most famous disciple, the physicist Lenny Susskind, was an atheist of Jewish descent (I know this because I read it in his own semi-autobiographical book, The Black Hole War). I don’t know if either of them ever realized that, if I were to try to explain humanity to ancient peoples, I could hardly come up with a better explanation that they would understand.

And could heaven be a glorified place?

Heaven IS a glorified place. But it is a place beyond our comprehension.

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