Aacatholicmom. You said in post 15 here:
When is says “there is no longer any sacrifice for sin etc… etc…”
I’ll try to get to these things later in the thread but I think you will be able to answer these questions yourself as this thread goes on.
You mentioned in your original post (post #1):
I need help with Hebrews 10:11-18. In summary the verses seem to support the protestant view that Jesus died once for all, and that there is no need for the eternal perpetual sacrifice of the Mass given my Catholic Priests. " But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God… For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified…I will remember their sins and their misdeeds no more…Where there is forgiveness of these; there is no longer any offering for sin."
Let’s break this down in small bites.
I need help with Hebrews 10:11-18. In summary the verses seem to support the protestant view that Jesus died once for all, . . .
First of all, Jesus DID die ONCE for all. Jesus’ sacrifice was in time, but His sacrifice transcends time. That’s why Revelation 13:8 talks about Jesus sacrifice being offered “before the foundation of the world”.
Not because Jesus’ sacrifice was carried out in (whatever) B.C. before the world was made, but because His sacrifice in A.D. 33 (or whatever) transcends time.
. . . . and that there is no need for the eternal perpetual sacrifice . . .
If there is “no need for perpetual sacrifice”, WHY would Jesus’ sacrifice transcend time? After all, if there is “no need”, why does Jesus sacrifice carry backward AND forward?
Because there IS a need for the “eternal perpetual sacrifice” and Jesus furnishes that need.
. . . . and that there is no need for the eternal perpetual sacrifice of the Mass given my Catholic Priests.
OK. This is their real objection I suspect. The **Ministerial Priesthood **(and the Mass). (More on that later if you want me to expound on that).
But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God…
This is just fine. No objection from me here.
I beg your pardon in advance, but I want to go over (at least) twice your next point, because the answer has several dimensions. (bold and ul mine) I will also anticipate some questions your Protestant friends may have.
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified…
Q: A “SINGLE OFFERING”! Wouldn’t that “do away” with any other “offering” like a “Catholic Priest” and the “Sacrifice” of the Mass?
Q: Why not? What can you Catholics “ADD” to Jesus’ sacrifice? WHY try to “ADD” to Jesus’ sacrifice?
A: Because there is “one” “once for all” sacrifice from Jesus . . . . Does this mean Jesus suffered and died . . .
Because there is “one” “once for all” sacrifice from Jesus . . . . Does this mean Jesus suffered and died . . .
A. So we don’t have to? . . . OR . . .
B. So we can (by His grace) have our sacrifices UNITED to His “once for all” Sacrifice?
Fortunately we have the answer just a few verses later and in Romans 6.
When we are Baptized (or born of “water and the Spirit”), we (by grace) are united to Christ’s life, death, and Resurrection.
So the correct answer is B. We are united to Jesus’ death. And the sacrifice we offer is united to Him
So these sacrifices are not “ADDED” to Christ’s sacrifice so much as they are “UNITED” to Christ’s “one” “once of all” sacrifice.
(Many of these guys see themselves united to the GLORY of Christ . . . . [yep that’s me] . . . but conveniently forget about being united to Jesus’ suffering and death [nope. None of that stuff for me].
They forget proverbial “Good Friday” comes before the proverbial “Easter Sunday”. Glory apart from the Cross is their motif. That’s what St. Peter thought BEFORE Jesus rebuked him saying, “Get behind me “opposer” or “satan” in Matthew 16:23. That’s what many “Rapturists” think today too.
But is that what the Bible teaches? No!)
Q: But are we REALLY “UNITED” to Jesus’ sacrifice?
A: Fortunately St. Paul answers that question so I don’t have to.
ROMANS 6:3-5 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
Q: Well this is fine and dandy. But this is all an optional item . . . isn’t it?
A: No. It is NOT optional. Let’s again let St. Paul answer this . . . .
ROMANS 8:16-17 16 it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.